So, with my latest hijinks in stuffing more power into a tiny car and dealing with that, I’ve decided the next project will be fast (or at least have an engine with potential). No more engine swaps.
That leads me to this narrow path. I would also like an American car this time. Do something different. I’ve been lusting after a mk2 Capri as of late, but hear the suspension is archaic. That’s where the real question poses: which rwd, v8 powered, ‘merican muscle can handle very well, or at least be upgraded to handle very good with only bolt on parts. And no crazy 2,600$ watts link setup... lol.
I’ve been craig’s Surfing for cramits, mushtangs, Capri, mavericks, c4 vettes. Old is fine, as long as it has potential and given the parameters I mentioned above. Is there anything else to add to the list?
In reply to Nick (Bo) Comstock :
Crud, ya snuck in before I could edit. Yes, c4 is on the list and at the top.
How about something that already has a watts link? Like a P71?
I'd argue they're great tires and a slightly smaller front bar away from being decent handling, and it's like driving a couch.
A C4 in that price range is likely to need a lot of fixes, but they can be found with a lot of searching. And they've got a pretty good suspension out of the box, typically just needing worn parts replaced and good tires.
You may have an easier time finding a Mustang or Camaro, or even a G-body, Caprice, or MN12 platform Ford. There's decent aftermarket for any of these - maybe not what a top level racer might run, but there's a lot of improvement you can do with bolt ons.
The MN12 cars are a bit of an interesting dark horse candidate here. They're heavy, but have fully independent suspension - a rarity in big American land yachts.
I think the full list for this is:
-Corvette newer than 1984
-F-body newer than 1982
-Mustang newer than 1979 (and related models)
-G-body shows potential with bolt ons from multiple companies depending on how much you want to spend.
Those are the ones I can think of with obvious support that are cheap-ish. The rest of it gets you into the typical pro-touring game of throwing money at the problem or doing fab work as far as I can tell.
Lincoln Mark 8.
Can be found in your price range all the time. 32valve V8 engine that was shared with the Cobra version of the Mustang. Came from the factory with rear airbag suspension but the popular upgrade is to swap that out to coils. Try to find one that already has coils. Does not share the bolt patern with Ford rwd so some different sized rims are needed or easier is adapters to fit the popular stuff.
Real sample found in just seconds of looking.
What's the end goal? Winning? Or Fun?
BTW, the Capri is not better or worse than nearly any other sporty car of its period. Certainly with some work to eliminate the worst of the issues, it's better than a Fox in many ways other than parts availability.
For autocross the main limitation is how much sticky rubber you can stuff under the fenders and how stiff you can get the suspension to assist with transitions and not give the driver "brown" moments all the time.
A Capri V6 with flares, wide wheels and sticky tires and some good springs and shocks should be a ton of fun and very unique.
Jaynen
SuperDork
9/26/17 11:02 a.m.
Yeah anything that starts in this budget that actually becomes regionally competitive at CAM and would also be fun for HPDE?
Let's be honest that anything that starts in this budget is going to need work. Likely a lot of worn parts need replaced.
So starting with a good candidate and knowing that it's going to take at least a couple Grand to getting it up to snuff, I don't see anything being better at that point than the C4. With a G-body your stuck with an anemic 305 unless you get real lucky. F-BODIES are likely to be 305s as well at this price point. The Ford's aren't worth mentioning to me so I'll leave that for someone else but with the Vette you are ahead of the game with a good chassis and suspension and a 350 to build on.
Certainly a better starting point and end result than an f or g body.
At least in my eyes.
In reply to Nick (Bo) Comstock :
I agree that the C4 is the best option, BUT I have to disagree on your point about the 305- F and G bodies are common choices for motor swaps, so it should definitely still be possible to find one with some sort of 350 in it within the budget. Not a particularly well executed swap, or hopped up engine, most likely, but something with good parts on it and in need of some sorting.
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
I'm thinking likely a 250k 180hp engine from a van. At least that's been my experience.
In reply to Nick (Bo) Comstock :
Right, nice low compression so it takes boost well 
Jaynen
SuperDork
9/26/17 11:49 a.m.
4th gen v8 camaro for less than 2k? Sign me up? You are looking at around 4-5 for PRE LS ones and about 7k for a LS around here anyway. However a 4th gen fits much larger tires easier than a 3rd gen
I see LT1 4th gens all the time for $2k. Probably gonna be ugly and definitely will stink like menthols, but it shouldn't be too hard to find one.
https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/d/95-camaro-lt-1/6316639903.html
Should fit 305s at all four corners with little to no effort. Also, the 4th gen gets you double wishbones up front vs struts in the 3rd gen.
The goal here would be a fun car that’s not dead last at the auto cross and is not boring or scary (death-scary, not fun-scary) at a twisty mountain road.
Im thinking 300hp and 3000lbs, or the give/take of each for that 10:1 ratio. My buddy’s old ‘85 Monte Carlo SS was awful. But stock.
And yes, obviously, anything bought would need a suspension refresh. But that’s not my point. What I want to avoid is dumping a couple thousand to re-engineer the suspension (geometry or type). For instance, I don’t want to buy a F body cramit, and have to spend time/money getting a watts link, an expensive aftermarket LSD, and the have to contemplate some crazy $$$ IFS kit over the Mac strut stuff.
Just simple things like shocks/springs/swaybars/bushings/tires
I think if you wanted 300hp V8 american fun without a lot of work. SN95 Mustang might be the way to go. 94-98 cars still being the ugly stepchild that nobody wants as far as I can tell so the prices haven't gone up yet. 94-95 cars get you a 302, 96-98 cars get you a 4.6 2v. I don't think either engine will have problems getting you to the power you want. There's enough support out there for the platform to get it to dance fairly easily, there's also factory parts available from other cars to help if you want to spend the time looking.
That's not what I did of course but probably what I feel like I should have done.
Jaynen said:
4th gen v8 camaro for less than 2k? Sign me up? You are looking at around 4-5 for PRE LS ones and about 7k for a LS around here anyway. However a 4th gen fits much larger tires easier than a 3rd gen
2002 LS1 Z28 $2500 I bet $2000 would take it home. High miles and an auto but it looks to be in decent shape.
In reply to Trackmouse :
Um, whut? The G-body was used as the basis for many successful circle track and road race cars, there's been books written about making them handle better. Your buddy's car is broken and you're allowing that to color your view.
You don't NEED to re-engineer the suspension on a Crammit, since the 2nd gens they've usually been better handling cars than the Mustangs out of the box. They were just either woefully underpowered, overweight or a bit more fragile than the Mustangs. Their larger overhangs and driving position tended to limit their abilities in Autocross compared to the Mustang. In road racing, the better aero favored the Crammit. Anyway, all of those problems have been resolved through the aftermarket for cheap (or you could go full pro-touring, but that's not what you're looking at).
Go watch Penske vs Shelby in classic Trans-Am and that was with fairly archaic suspension and tires!
Just grab the best example you can (some were optioned with a factory limited slip for example), refresh the suspension and go race. It seems like you're over-thinking this and for Autocross the driver skill more often than the car determines where you place within a class. Back away from perfection, it doesn't exist, and go for cheap fun. A Crammit will fill that hole nicely.
Fourth gen F bodies are better out of the box than many give them credit for.
And I would say the opposite for the mustangs.
I have a 5.0 Fox body, and I think your answer here is 3rd gen F-body. I love my Mustang, but it has some serious handling shortcomings. Learn the option codes and you can easily pick up a Camaro/Firebird with the better suspension, steering ratio, posi with a good ratio, etc.
One of the guys on this board picked up a needy Trans AM GTA and it had all the "right stuff" once he took a good look at it.
Having owned a fourth gen F body, this means the Mustang must be absolute crap. I wouldn't have wanted my car near any racetrack that had more corners than a drag strip.
