What car?: Wagons vs Hatches edition

WAGON ATTACK!!!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZzqBPz4sY

Really, for reliability and your price range.... Protege5. I've always liked the looks inside and out of those too. I wonder, is a Focus ZX5 with the 2.3L reliable?

In that price range, why not look at an Accord wagon. I forget the last year they made them, but it's probably around the same model year of the other cars you're looking at. Reliable as the sun rise, good on gas, plenty of room.

If not, I'd go Protege. I had one, a sedan, for years. It never left me stranded and never needed anything more than routine maintenance. Sold it with 150k on the clock, needed some routine stuff, but was in overall great shape. A lot of fun to drive to boot.

Have a '96 Volvo 850 wagon now. If you want room in a non-SUV size package, this thing is it. It's cavernous inside. Fuel mileage is so-so. It handles well for a wagon, even in my non-turbo auto version it's not a total snore to drive. I've put 26k miles on it in 15 months of ownership (now at 135k) and it's needed nothing more than very minor stuff. Just make sure the A/C works. The car is built around the evap, it's reportedly a nightmare to fix. My A/C has a leak, but one can of the DIY stuff at Autozone gets me through the whole summer fine.

You being in Hotlanta, I would rule out the Subaru's, wheel bearing issues, poor fuel economy compared to the others, and an unecessarily high price tag for where you are/what you need.

I have had 2 subies and loved them both, but I live in the mountains north of you on the Tennessee/NC border.

Of the cars you listed I would get the Saab, for nothing more than they are slowly disappearing. The Volvo and the B can be your nest rides. If this car is a true consideration and you have always wanted one, I think you had better do it soon.

But if you really wanted to get the Subaru, stretch your budget and get a 9-2x.

Best of both worlds

My wife has put 110k trouble free miles on ours with just regular maintenance and a window regulator. Great car.

Fletch1 wrote: WAGON ATTACK!!!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZzqBPz4sY Really, for reliability and your price range.... Protege5. I've always liked the looks inside and out of those too. I wonder, is a Focus ZX5 with the 2.3L reliable?

Yes the Duratec/Zetec Foci with a manuals are anvils in the reliability department.

Split Ports are the ones with engine issues.

Old girlfriend had a Protoge5 when I had a ZX3, in a drag race her's would inch forward, in the twisties they felt about equal as well. Her's had more doors but felt like less interior room. Very competent car but felt very raw for a street car. On the day to day it would annoy me. That is why I went the Focus.

MattB hit it, the touch points on the Focus feel cheap but the Protege5's ride feels cheap.

Both cars are very very reliable and cheap to maintain.

I will second what Slick said about the SAAB parts issue. Both of the cars you showed share enough parts with other GM and European stuff that parts are really not an issue, besides from what I have read SAAB parts arm is now making stuff again at the plant in Trollhattan.

As for reliability, take a look at the chart below. Those are for cars three years old, so 2007 cars. SAAB is just below Subi. I know that studies like those need to be taked with a grain of salt but my car has lived up to the findings.

In reply to Flight Service:

I mentioned the Focus because I was wondering if maybe it would be more comfortable for daily commutes. Thanks for the info. I've heard VERY GOOD things on GRM about Focus 2.3L's with the svt suspension. Which by the way, can be had new for under $300.

Focus ZX5 (2.3L) with SVT goodies

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: My wife has put 110k trouble free miles on ours with just regular maintenance and a window regulator. Great car.

THIS. is what I really want. Want badly. However, they are just out of my price range. Same for the 9-2X, which would be just about as sweet. We're trying to buy a house in less than a year's time so I'm trying to get something I can pay for in a few months.

It would've been awesome if they had imported the E36 wagon. I bet some of those would be around my sweet spot by now.

Mazdax605 wrote: FYI the wagon only ever came in a V6 as far as I know. Javelin could tell you for sure, but I have never seen a 4 cylinder wagon, and don't think they exist.

After a bit of poking, I can confirm you are correct sir! Only the V6 with the wagon. I was a little surprised to find it had the worst mileage of any of the other choices. Then again, it is the most powerful and I believe the heaviest of the options so far (maybe Volvo wagons tip past 3400?). Probably would be a nice drive though!

In reply to Matt B:

DOH. Sorry - I didn't see the price range in the 1st post. They are still in the $7500 to $12k range.

Our previous wagon was a '98 Subaru Outback and it was also a stellar car for fuel economy and size enough for 2 kids, 2 dogs and gear. The AWD and extra ground clearance made is a blast in deep snow too.

Flight Service wrote: You being in Hotlanta, I would rule out the Subaru's, wheel bearing issues, poor fuel economy compared to the others, and an unecessarily high price tag for where you are/what you need. I have had 2 subies and loved them both, but I live in the mountains north of you on the Tennessee/NC border. Of the cars you listed I would get the Saab, for nothing more than they are slowly disappearing. The Volvo and the B can be your nest rides. If this car is a true consideration and you have always wanted one, I think you had better do it soon. But if you really wanted to get the Subaru, stretch your budget and get a 9-2x. Best of both worlds

Tell me more about these Subie wheel bearing issues. It's not something I'm familiar with.

Again, the Saab seems like rolling the dice a bit, which isn't what we want to do with this purchase. It seems hard to get real information about reliability and parts availability (I keep hearing different stories). I should probably call up some local specialty shops to see if they can give me some more info. I'm fairly interested in them, but they're a hard sell to the wife when we're also shopping Subarus. Mileage is a wash between them, but I'm going to guess the Saab will be faster and possibly more fun to drive.

In the end, I'm not sure I'm going to be deciding on one specific model. I'm probably going to pick the best example of the "acceptable" choices. I thought I'd have all the time in the world to wait for the perfect ride to show up, but this heat is killing me.

Thanks again guys for all your input so far! Keep it coming.

Ninja edit: That ZX5 looks pretty sweet... on the outside.

Also, thanks for posting that Wagonattack vid! Love those Civic wagons (unfortunately too old, no airbag, so not on the list this time).

The SVT interior at least on my focus I liked a lot

How about an old 240 5 spd wagon? You're more likely to find a nice one in your price range than any newer car. The downside is the 5 spd felt more like my old Toyota truck than any car I've shifted...

Personally, I wouldn't touch any European car with a 10 feet pole in your price range unless you can plan on doing work to it. Maybe you can get lucky, but I wouldn't bet on it. It's like buying a diesel truck in this price range - chances are high there is a reason it's being sold...

I agree your best bet is something Japanese. A Subie sound good, but I don't know what the market for them is like down in Atlanta. They're fairly common up here in PA.

Does the SVT have a different interior than the ZX models?

Also, I didn't think that the 240's had airbags?

As for the Subie market - it's not a big in the ATL as I'd like it to be. I'd be fine if I wanted an automatic outback, but that's pretty much opposite of what I want. lol

Not enough manual non-outback wagons available!

Svt's are about the same as the other Focus' other than whiteface gauges, color inserts in the seats and the fact that its black rather than grey. Different shiftknob and pedals too. Not too much difference, but enough to want the SVT version.

I will reiterate: getting parts for any pre-2007 Saab is EASY. Ddavidv seems to have a huge chip on his shoulder about them for some reason, having never owned one. He has a friend of a friend with one at a shop. I've owned THREE. There is virtually nothing NLA for anything pre-2007. Anything newer than that was part of the final Saab restyle, or the 2011 9-5 which is just a brand new car. That stuff? Virtually impossible, yes, although now Saab Parts N.A. has stepped up and recieved a cash infusion to keep things going. But anything older is a walk in the park.

Previous threads about newer used Saabs: Saab 9 5 Aero, run away or not.. Luxury Trap? Volvo S40 and Saab 9-3

Major parts suppliers: genuinesaab.com partsforsaabs.com eeuroparts.com

Fletch1 wrote: Svt's are about the same as the other Focus' other than whiteface gauges, color inserts in the seats and the fact that its black rather than grey. Different shiftknob and pedals too. Not too much difference, but enough to want the SVT version.

Those seats are definitely different as well as being part leather in the SVT. Also after 2003 you could get the european appearance package which had actual recaro's

In reply to Jaynen:

Forgot about the leather part. I couldn't tell if they were different. I assume you owned a SVT. Would you recommend one for a fun DD?

I would plus one the Saab. their value is going down a decent amount right now.

I gotta admit, the svt interior is a big improvement.

SlickDizzy - that's the kind of info I was looking for, thanks!

A small point- the factory manual to my 1995 high pressure turbo Volvo 855 states 87 RON. I don't think any of the 1993-2000 p1 cars need premium. Mayby the Light pressure turbos are more sensitive to octane, by my car has never audibly "pinged" and I have never felt it pull timing. It has had a 17 psi map for 7 years and 100k and 90% of that has been Oregon regular. They make allot of twist. You start to really like that.

It definitely requires more maintenance than the Asian makes, but it is way easier to work on that the audi/vw stuff.

Watching this with interest. I thought I had found the answer with our 850 turbo wagon, but we have not been getting along well...

Fletch1 wrote: In reply to Jaynen: Forgot about the leather part. I couldn't tell if they were different. I assume you owned a SVT. Would you recommend one for a fun DD?

The SVT is great, out of the box the suspension is quite good for a DD and fun car. The interior felt very nice for a car of that size at the time. I came from the background of assuming all fords were crap on the inside like the late 90's early 2000's mustangs.

I cross shopped the civic SI, the Sentra SE-R Spec V, and the GTI? as well and ended up with the SVT focus.

Loved mine, really miss that car. I'd be tempted to find a 5 door version with the recaro's now that would be the ideal.

I did a bunch of track days with it too. Was fun out braking Boxsters and WRXs

Also one of my requirements for buying the car was I wanted to be able to sit behind myself. At 6'1" I fit in the backseat of the 2 dr SVT focus fine with my knees just touching but not pressed into the driver seat and plenty of head room due to the little bump they made in the headliner

The Subaru is notorious for right rear wheel bearings. Just a little to boarder line to the spec for that application.

You can look this up because I can't remember the years, Subs had a piston self destruction issue, they have been know to blow head gaskets do to a defect in the factory versions.

the upside is they are really easy to work on. I can just about pull an engine without getting under the car.