What car?

So my roommate is starting to shop for a car. Budget is $10k.

The requirements are:
1) Sporty (not talking a ton of horsepower but a decent amount of fun)
2) Better gas mileage then a PT Cruiser
3) Not insanely high insurance for a 23 year old
4) Newer (so probably '00+)
5) Reliable
6) Not a boring a hatchback (Fit, 3, Civic, maybe something like an Si or similar hot hatch would work)

I am absolutely useless at this because everything I would buy in the price range was made pre-'90 (951, TR6, etc).

Edit: This is a 23year old with no speeding tickets or accidents on his history. I was thinking S2000 or Miata but I don't know what those cost to buy or insure.

Edit again: to add 6.

Mazda3 or Honda Fit or Civic would be my first guesses. I can't think of anything else that cheap, that new, that I don't think would be a pain for a 23 yr. old to insure...

EDIT: I implied "reliable" into this, if that is not a concern then you can add Golfs and Jettas in. I'm assuming they do better on gas than a PT Cruiser...

He's not going to like insurance on an S2000. My brother has a few minor incidents on his record and his insurance is ~$3400 a year. He's 23 as well.

You can get early AP1s cheap enough that I'd buy one and insure it for whatever state minimum coverage is there, but I'm not sure I'd recommend that to someone you like.

MG Bryan wrote: He's not going to like insurance on an S2000. My brother has a few minor incidents on his record and his insurance is ~$3400 a year. He's 23 as well.

An S2000 won't get better mileage than a (manula transmission) PT Cruiser. If he really wants something fast, the Turbo Cobalt SS's get surprisingly good mileage and are starting to show up under $10k. I'm not sure I can vouch for the reliability of that motor though...

Also, people think the S2000 is docile and Miata-like b/c it has around 11 lb-ft of torque under 4000 RPM's, but it is a 240 hp serious sports car.

MG Bryan wrote: He's not going to like insurance on an S2000. My brother has a few minor incidents on his record and his insurance is ~$3400 a year. He's 23 as well.

Shop it around. I pay a very reasonable amount for full coverage on my S2000 (less than $500 annually), but I do have other cars, age 30, clean record, excellent credit, etc. so YMMV. I run quotes on stuff all the time whenever I'm curious, and the S2000 has been one of the cheapest fun cars to insure. It was way less than an RX8, WRX, E36M3, Evo, or GTI. Similar to newer Civic, Miata, C5 Vette.

Damn, a P71 wont get the mileage.

ShadowSix wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: He's not going to like insurance on an S2000. My brother has a few minor incidents on his record and his insurance is ~$3400 a year. He's 23 as well.

An S2000 won't get better mileage than a (manula transmission) PT Cruiser.

S2000 gets the same mileage as the auto PT he has right now. He is getting ~20 combined for the PT.

In regards to the S2000, I was just replying to 93EXCivic's edit. My brother's AP2 does about 27 on the highway unless you baby it, in which you can see 30mpg. It's not exactly geared for low-rpm cruising.

Edit: With either of us caning it on the weekend, the damn thing still gets 23.

That said, it makes more torque than a stock Miata, the chassis feels even better, and, yes, it makes a respectable amount of power. It's hard to characterize because "fast" is so relative. Sure, it's way faster than a PT Cruiser, but it's also way slower than a C5 Corvette.

Insurance is definitely going to vary widely on the S2000. In my brother's case, he's 23, the S2000 is his only car, he has speeding tickets on his record, has an excellent credit score, but limited credit/bill payment history, and has always been insured on our parent's policy. Still, $3400 would buy another car every year.

Whoa, keep an eye on him if he goes from an auto PT Cruiser to an S2000. Those cars are no joke!

Can you really get an AP2 for under $10K now? I love depreciation!

ShadowSix wrote: > Can you really get an AP2 for under $10K now? I love depreciation!

No, AP1 though... I've seen as low as 8 for a serviceable car.

Mazda 3, Honda Fit, Honda Civic would be perfect.

ShadowSix wrote: Can you really get an AP2 for under $10K now?

No.

MG Bryan wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: > Can you really get an AP2 for under $10K now? I love depreciation!

No, AP1 though... I've seen as low as 8 for a serviceable car.

Ferinstance: http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/2941376389.html

MG Bryan wrote: He's not going to like insurance on an S2000.

They're not good for noob drivers either. If he's not a driving enthusiast and just wants something that looks sporty and plants him in the seat from the lights, I wouldn't recommend an S2k.

Miata or Mazda3 seem like good suggestions.

C5 Vette?

CLNSC3 wrote: C5 Vette?

WAY more powerful then he wants/ needs.

I think you're underestimating the S2000 here, the early C5's got to 60 in the high four range and the S2000 gets there in the mid-fives.

Edit: Just saw your 6th criterion, I realize more what we're talking about now. MUCH sportier than I had imagined. Maybe an '03-ish Mustang GT?

I think the real question here is going to become, "Which sporty coupe of sports car can I afford to insure?"

No 23 yr. old in the world would listen to this advice, but I'd buy an early Fit and put money away to buy something really cool the day I turn 25. My rates dropped precipitously when I turned 25, even though I had a clean record and drove a BMW 525i!

93EXCivic wrote:

ShadowSix wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: He's not going to like insurance on an S2000. My brother has a few minor incidents on his record and his insurance is ~$3400 a year. He's 23 as well.

An S2000 won't get better mileage than a (manula transmission) PT Cruiser.

S2000 gets the same mileage as the auto PT he has right now. He is getting ~20 combined for the PT.

Teach your friend to either maintain vehicle or drive better. My auto PT gets 24 combined, 28 on trips. I agree, it's not great, but it's not THAT bad. I've never heard of people getting mileage that poor in a PT. heck, I came within spiting distance with my carbed, three-on-the-tree truck!

ShadowSix wrote: No 23 yr. old in the world would listen to this advice, but I'd buy an early Fit and put money away to buy something really cool the day I turn 25. My rates dropped precipitously when I turned 25, even though I had a clean record and drove a BMW 525i!

Ditto this. I was 23 once. You know what I did? I had a car decision matrix made up for my 10k car that I felt I would be able to afford shortly after graduation. Then I got married, moved out of state, bought a house, had a kid, had a kid, had a kid and I just now spent over 10k on a car - a minivan.

Fix the PT and get 24 mpg and like it - it's the most cost effective route - save for later -double if he has student loans. I know, nobody will listen, we're supposed to be enablers here. Got it.

tuna55 wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: No 23 yr. old in the world would listen to this advice, but I'd buy an early Fit and put money away to buy something really cool the day I turn 25. My rates dropped precipitously when I turned 25, even though I had a clean record and drove a BMW 525i!

Ditto this. I was 23 once. You know what I did? I had a car decision matrix made up for my 10k car that I felt I would be able to afford shortly after graduation. Then I got married, moved out of state, bought a house, had a kid, had a kid, had a kid and I just now spent over 10k on a car - a minivan. Fix the PT and get 24 mpg and like it - it's the most cost effective route - save for later -double if he has student loans. I know, nobody will listen, we're supposed to be enablers here. Got it.

Alternative advice: Hold off on having kids.

LOL

I should I should point out that my 23 yr. old self would not have listened to my own advice.

The only reason I didn't buy a C5 Corvette when I commissioned is that I knew I was going to Iraq soon and couldn't bear the thought of letting such a car sit in the storage lot for 15 mos!

tuna55 wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: No 23 yr. old in the world would listen to this advice, but I'd buy an early Fit and put money away to buy something really cool the day I turn 25. My rates dropped precipitously when I turned 25, even though I had a clean record and drove a BMW 525i!

Ditto this. I was 23 once. You know what I did? I had a car decision matrix made up for my 10k car that I felt I would be able to afford shortly after graduation. Then I got married, moved out of state, bought a house, had a kid, had a kid, had a kid and I just now spent over 10k on a car - a minivan.

His parents are buying him the car (they are loaded). And I am betting damn near anything he won't be having kids soon.

It kinda depends on what his parents are doing. If they are buying him the car, they will want to get him something newer (we think). If they are giving him the money, he probably won't spend it all on a car.

tuna55 wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

ShadowSix wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: He's not going to like insurance on an S2000. My brother has a few minor incidents on his record and his insurance is ~$3400 a year. He's 23 as well.

An S2000 won't get better mileage than a (manula transmission) PT Cruiser.

S2000 gets the same mileage as the auto PT he has right now. He is getting ~20 combined for the PT.

Teach your friend to either maintain vehicle or drive better. My auto PT gets 24 combined, 28 on trips. I agree, it's not great, but it's not THAT bad. I've never heard of people getting mileage that poor in a PT. heck, I came within spiting distance with my carbed, three-on-the-tree truck!

It is pretty much all city and that is what the EPA rated it at. Also the PT is reliable and has been a great car but damn is it boring and if there is anytime in life to own a sports car it is when you are young and don't have a family.

So... Miata then?

/thread