Wait, what? If you want to rehash torque vs. horsepower, do that in a different thread. And point me to it. I don't often insult others, even on the internet, so I'm curious what you are talking about.
The "only" 0.028 concerns me as well, but you have to admit it is interesting that Javelin sells/distributes parts that are sold as both 5x115 and 5x114.3 and are exactly the same part.
ProDarwin wrote: The "only" 0.028 concerns me as well, but you have to admit it is interesting that Javelin sells/distributes parts that are sold as both 5x115 and 5x114.3 and are exactly the same part.
I think the joke is on us. Awhile back I was at the Rolex wandering through the garages after the Fresh from Florida 200 (basically the Friday saloon race) and I stopped in a bay where they were servicing one of the Cobalt SS street touring cars that participated. I asked one of the mechanics if the Enkei RPF01s they were running were a custom lug pattern, because the 5 lug Cobalt SS stock lug pattern is 5x110. He told me they were running Grand Am hubs because Enkei would not do a special bolt pattern for a price they could afford. Now I find it odd that "Old" GM (pre-bailout) would have one N-body car in one division running a 5x114.3 lug pattern and the rest running 5x115. Having bought some aftermarket hubs for a Bonnevile (H body) i'm pretty sure they were 5x114.3 as I checked the fit with some aftermarket wheels (from a Jeep!) for giggles and they fit very well. So did a set of factory 17" Mustang GT wheels. Apparently "only" 0.028 is close enough..
EDIT: This may have been the car 
As long as you do everything using the lug-centric approach, nothing will really go wrong. There are plenty of W-body guys running 5x114.3 with no issues by using the lug-centric technique.
Volt is 5x115. I think the first Gen CTS was as well.
1st Gen CTS is 5x110.
the ats is also 5x115 also I think?
Too many bolt patterns jeez that's annoying lol. At least isn't 5x108 or 4x108 with some fords and 5x114.3 may work...
iadr wrote: Anyone suggesting "it's just .028in" shouldn't be allowed to own a car let alone work on them. Times like this it makes me ashamed to be a "car enthusiast". Course it's in a thread started by someone who still hasn't given me the apology he owes me for insulting me, when *he* failed to understand the difference between torque and horsepower. I'm just glad I'm far away from you guys driving around with your wheel studs splayed around like palm trees in a hurricane. Anytime a wheel of the correct bolt pattern is installed and tightend, the wheel hubs must be replaced. Try bending a heel stud 28thou, see what happens.
Alright, put your learning cap on because class is in session.
This is how you measure a 5-lug wheel:
Notice that it is from the backside of one hole to the middle of another. That means that if you change the size of the lug studs or mounting holes, you actually change the whole bolt pattern.
Let me give you a really common example. My Javelin (and nearly every American car for decades) uses a 1/2"-20 thread lug stud for it's wheels. If I want to go serious drag racing, I have to upgrade those per the NHRA rulebook. I can either stick with the stock thread size, or upgrade to a 5/8"-18 thread screw-in stud sold by all of the major rear axle manufacturers. I have increased my lug stud size from .500" to .625", a difference of .125". No big deal, right? This is on the back of nearly every 9-second car in the country. Ah, but remember how to measure 5-lug wheels? That 5x4.5" wheel (5x114.3) now has to fit a 5x4.5625" circle (.125" difference in lug size, divided by two since it's measured outside to middle)! Do you want to hazard a guess as to what that is in metric? 5x114.973 Yes, that means that every Hemi 'Cuda, Boss Mustang, and AMX at a drag strip is running a 5x114.3 wheel on a 5x115 hub at a 150 MPH!
The difference between a 5x114.3 and 5x115 pattern is 0.01378". You could always drill the lug holes larger in a 5x114.3 wheel to sleep better at night, but the smallest fractional drill bit size jump is 1/64th of an inch, or 0.015625", so you'd actually make the pattern a little bigger than 5x115 by doing that.
So sorry, but no, my wheel studs are not "splayed out like a palm tree in a hurricane", and no, you do not have to replace any studs or hub assemblies going back-and-forth from 5x114.3 to 5x115. Still not convinced? Buy a set of rear brake drums for a 2006 Saturn Vue (my very car in question with it's splayed-out lug studs!), like say Centric part number 123.66042.
Yes, that's right, it's manufacturer listed critical dimension for lug pattern is 5x4.5". Well shoot, let's check the front rotors, too:
Oh, dear. But wait, maybe I'm just mistaken and the GM Theta platform isn't really 5x115. Let's check the wheel hub bearing assemblies!
Well shoot, they both list 5x4.53" as the pattern!
Guess every single GM SUV on the planet is about to have it's wheels fly off!
This concludes our lesson for today, kids.
Javelin wrote: This is how you measure a 5-lug wheel:
Thats an odd way of measuring it, because it depends on stud size or hole diameter. Using a common 12mm stud, it will be approx 4.51", which most people will round to 4.50". The actual bolt pattern is still the imaginary circle that the center points reside on, and changing the hole or stud size will not change it.
ProDarwin wrote:Javelin wrote: This is how you measure a 5-lug wheel:Thats an odd way of *measuring* it, because it depends on stud size or hole diameter. Using a common 12mm stud, it will be approx 4.51", which most people will round to 4.50". The *actual bolt pattern* is still the imaginary circle that the center points reside on, and changing the hole or stud size will not change it.
Nope, that's how they set up the machines to drill it, too. 
Javelin wrote:ProDarwin wrote:Nope, that's how they set up the machines to drill it, too.Javelin wrote: This is how you measure a 5-lug wheel:Thats an odd way of *measuring* it, because it depends on stud size or hole diameter. Using a common 12mm stud, it will be approx 4.51", which most people will round to 4.50". The *actual bolt pattern* is still the imaginary circle that the center points reside on, and changing the hole or stud size will not change it.
^ this is correct.
Why they introduced 5x105 for the new cars is beyond me.
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