Let's say I wanted to do something kind of foolish by selling the M2 and the Miata to fund a 996 GT3 . . . What do we know about them? I understand that the coolant pipes are "glued" into the engine, and that if they let go on track it could be catastrophic. Anything else I should know? Has anyone ever driven one?
I don't anticipate depreciation, unless I wrecked the car.
That they are awesome. That's it.
Do it. You will not lose a penny.
They don't have the same engine failure issues of other contemporary Porsches because they are based on the older, more durable design.
I remember speaking to the very happy owner of a 996 GT3 and he said that you need to check the rear quarter panels very carefully because they have either hit a wall on the track, or they will in the future. He said that it can be driven at 10/10ths, but there is no 10.1, and there is absolutely no warning as you approach the limit.
Mmmm, Mezger.
Do it!
They're the only GT3 that's remotely attainable at the moment, I just don't know if I could bring myself to spend real money on a car with the 996 interior.
These cars are sensitive to tires and setup. Get it right and there's a decent amount of warning when approaching the limit and they're pretty forgiving over the limit. Get it wrong or use bad tires and yeah, it's going to bite you.
Slippery said:That they are awesome. That's it.
Do it. You will not lose a penny.
This. Wish I never sold it. They are rough riding screamers that make a grocery run feel like a pikes peak lap. Every heel toe and run to 8000 rpms put a smile on my face and on track it was a blast. Not as fast as the new machinery but was a blast figuring out how 911s like to be managed through corners. Trail brake, rotate, and drop the hammer! Only trouble comes when you lift and transfer weight off the rear after apex so best ro overslow and make sure you are pointed the right direction and work up to it but much of the scarey stuff is overstated.
Mine took 10k in suspension work, preventative maintenance, while you are in there engine and transmission was dropped and coolant lines were pinned prior to being comfortable with heavy track duty (all done in the garage). The Motons were sourced rebuilt second hand and absolutely transformed the compliance of the suspension even though I 2x'ed the spring rates.
Rennlist has a great 996gt3 specific forum for research and questions.
Personally with current prices, 996TT are the better buy if frequent tracking are not priority #1. Same engine, same feel, more power, and better looking for 30% less money.
I should've bought one back in 2010 when I had a chance. They are awesome, but not great street cars due to an insanely heavy clutch and really rough riding suspension. Engine faults are the coolant pipes, which is an engine out job to address, either by reglueing and pinning them in place or welding them in place. The engine won't get hurt if one lets go, but it dumps out 5+ gallons of coolant in a hurry.
They're worth quite a bit more than back in 2010, which makes me regret not buying one then that much more!
You're selling two depreciating resources for one that will certainly make you money in the long run. Get down.
I rode in a 996 GT3 Cup Car at Summit Point during a charity event. The driver did a 2:15 on Main while telling me about the car and its history and could have easily gone faster. Havent been in anything close to that and completely understand why the Porsche GT2/GT3 cars are so coveted.
Are the factory built "Cup" cars significantly different than the road cars mechanically?
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The other thing I'll say, if you want a GT3 specifically, get a GT3. But if you just want a nice GT_ car for a not insane amount of money, a 981 GT4 for the same price is a way better deal. It's still special, it's still not going to depreciate, but it's ten years newer and way more modern, easy to live with, and better looking inside and out. And it won't dump all its coolant out on track.
kevinatfms said:I rode in a 996 GT3 Cup Car at Summit Point during a charity event. The driver did a 2:15 on Main while telling me about the car and its history and could have easily gone faster. Havent been in anything close to that and completely understand why the Porsche GT2/GT3 cars are so coveted.
Are the factory built "Cup" cars significantly different than the road cars mechanically?
TL;DR: the 996 GT3s and Cup cars are going to the closest. With the 997, Porsche really started going more hardcore on the Cup cars, sequential gearboxes, no ABS. IIRC, the 997 Cup cars were also based on the GT3 RS tubs, not the standard GT3.
jmabarone said:kevinatfms said:I rode in a 996 GT3 Cup Car at Summit Point during a charity event. The driver did a 2:15 on Main while telling me about the car and its history and could have easily gone faster. Havent been in anything close to that and completely understand why the Porsche GT2/GT3 cars are so coveted.
Are the factory built "Cup" cars significantly different than the road cars mechanically?TL;DR: the 996 GT3s and Cup cars are going to the closest. With the 997, Porsche really started going more hardcore on the Cup cars, sequential gearboxes, no ABS. IIRC, the 997 Cup cars were also based on the GT3 RS tubs, not the standard GT3.
And after that they stuck the engine in the middle on the race cars.
In reply to Javelin :
Where they belong.
preach said:In reply to Javelin :
Where they belong.
Agreed 100%.
preach said:In reply to Javelin :
Where they belong.
But tradition!
This forum seemingly loves to take weird ass cars out of their designed environments and shove the square pegs through round holes in an effort to extract more excitement than was ever intended. All because why the hell not, its all in the enjoyment of getting something with an engine to scare the hell out of you.
But an engine in the rear? Oh hell no. Line too far.
Olemiss540 said:This forum seemingly loves to take weird ass cars out of their designed environments and shove the square pegs through round holes in an effort to extract more excitement than was ever intended. All because why the hell not, its all in the enjoyment of getting something with an engine to scare the hell out of you.
But an engine in the rear? Oh hell no. Line too far.
Having driven dozens of Porsches on track and autocross over the last 15 years, including a 992 GT3 RS, there's only so much physics you can overcome. The 911s just aren't as enjoyable or intuitive to drive.
I can't say that my 911 handles any worse than any other front engine/rear drive car I've driven. It does take some learning as far as trail braking and then jumping on the gas early for corner exit but otherwise....
docwyte said:I can't say that my 911 handles any worse than any other front engine/rear drive car I've driven. It does take some learning as far as trail braking and then jumping on the gas early for corner exit but otherwise....
Compared to mid-engine, obviously.
Though honestly I'd much rather track a Miata, RX8, and RX7 over a 911. There's a lot of good front engine cars.
Javelin said:docwyte said:I can't say that my 911 handles any worse than any other front engine/rear drive car I've driven. It does take some learning as far as trail braking and then jumping on the gas early for corner exit but otherwise....
Compared to mid-engine, obviously.
Though honestly I'd much rather track a Miata, RX8, and RX7 over a 911. There's a lot of good front engine cars.
And there's some here that thoroughly enjoy racing Jaguars/Mini's/BMWs/and Hondas. The point is you are stating what's best, when something being "enjoyable" to drive is absolutely 100% personal preference. This hobby is about passion, speed and enjoyment to most, not engineering.
I have owned and driven a wide range of vehicles over 15+ plus years driving on track as well, and there are aspects about some of the 911s that tingle places other vehicles simply do not in my experience (not that it makes them the "best"). Glad you found love in Mazdas as my experience was that the shifter, braking feel, and acceleration were meh but atleast the engine is in the right place.
One day I hope to drive a Lotus in anger, to see if it is everything I imagine.
Javelin said:Olemiss540 said:This forum seemingly loves to take weird ass cars out of their designed environments and shove the square pegs through round holes in an effort to extract more excitement than was ever intended. All because why the hell not, its all in the enjoyment of getting something with an engine to scare the hell out of you.
But an engine in the rear? Oh hell no. Line too far.
Having driven dozens of Porsches on track and autocross over the last 15 years, including a 992 GT3 RS, there's only so much physics you can overcome. The 911s just aren't as enjoyable or intuitive to drive.
They're different things. The mid engine cars are definitely more approachable. The rear engine cars are harder to get right but way more rewarding when you do get it right.
In reply to dps214 :
Air cooled, yes. Water cooled, I disagree. Even getting it right feels like you're wrestling a greased pig when there's just no reason to in a modern car. It wasn't rewarding or enjoyable given all the electronics in it to overcome physics. I drove both a 987 S and a 992 GT3 RS back to back on a track on the same tires (PS4S) and not only was the 987 a faster time, it was also much more pleasureable.
I've also driven a SC on track and that was truly lovely. You get an air cooled one right and it's full of feeling. You're just going slower than a Miata. I think the new cars are just too much power for the layout. (The AWD water cooled 911s are a better experience than the RWD ones IMO)
Javelin said:In reply to dps214 :
Air cooled, yes. Water cooled, I disagree. Even getting it right feels like you're wrestling a greased pig when there's just no reason to in a modern car. It wasn't rewarding or enjoyable given all the electronics in it to overcome physics. I drove both a 987 S and a 992 GT3 RS back to back on a track on the same tires (PS4S) and not only was the 987 a faster time, it was also much more pleasureable.
I've also driven a SC on track and that was truly lovely. You get an air cooled one right and it's full of feeling. You're just going slower than a Miata. I think the new cars are just too much power for the layout. (The AWD water cooled 911s are a better experience than the RWD ones IMO)
And you have some seat time on track in a 996 gt3? Not trying to call you out but a 992 is WORLDS apart from a 996gt3.
Compared to a gt4 I tracked, the 996 gt3 was slower, had less brakes, and worse at the transition from corner entry to corner exit but if both sets of keys were in front of me, pretty certain I would be driving the gt3. It was the closest to a factory built race car I have ever driven and was MUCH more of a sensory overload. Heel toes, engine wind out, and lack of electronics have me wishing I could turn back the clock on values.
In reply to Olemiss540 :
I do. It's fun and felt special when new, but a lot of that luster is gone now.
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