In reply to penultimeta:
I agree that the EF has a terrible rack. Not good.
My previous E21s on the other hand had terrific manual racks. Light and easy at low speeds while being super communicative and direct at speed. Those had the best steering of any of the cars I've personally owned.
wspohn wrote:
But going back to pure manual was always so pleasing that driving the power steering cars seemed like making love while wearing mittens in comparison.
Please tell me you're not speaking from experience.
Tk8398
New Reader
4/15/17 9:08 p.m.
Mk2 vw was mentioned already, but mk3 did in Canada also.
In reply to Tk8398:
I have seen A3 Jettas with manual steering down here, too. Solid 9.4 brakes as well.
Looking through my Youtube channel, somehow this video has some of the highest views.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/bnKmySqxyIc
Proof that I did, in fact, used to own one of the best FWD cars ever made. of all time. OF ALL TIME.
(note that the Hat of Awesome was worn instead of a helmet. This was not during a sanctioned rallycross. There was far too much beer involved to be SCCA compliant)
amg_rx7
SuperDork
4/16/17 10:42 p.m.
My 1990 Miata (now Spec Miata) base model has a manual rack. I suppose it can get annoying if you do a lot of parking but I totally loved it. I never liked the power steering rack in the Miata. It felt over assisted to me.
The manual steering in my 1st gen RX7 is worse than the Miata. I'm going to try and retrofit some electric or power steering of some sort since that is going to be a Chump car.
I briefly had a manual steering FC back in the day. It was a street car. I got used to it over time but I far preferred the power steering rack in the FC - and the FD.
Of course, (since I'm old), my first car (VW Scirocco) had manual steering. I was young so don't remember it being annoying but it probably was.
These days with the weight of cars being what they are, I'll gladly take a good power steering system - especially for a daily driver.
Some track driving instructors have a fetish about students not repositioning their hands on the steering wheel in turns.
I have a '79 BMW 3 series coupe, which is a manual rack. (Yes, it's an E21, and it is one sweet rack. But slow by comparison to newer stuff.)
I always cater to my instructors, as long as their demands can be executed safely, so I have figured out how to do it.
But sometimes I like to put them in the driver's seat for a session and say, "ok, YOU do three laps without repositioning your hands."
We de-powered the power steering on our '75 Ford LTD Landau. It's a bit of a pain to get around the pits, and on and off the trailer, but on track it's much better. The power steering on that beast had zero feel.
Not a rack, though. Pitman arm.
Wife's car is a '68 Camaro with factory manual steering. It's seriously like driving a bus. But she loves it.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse:
Improving the feel of old-school power steering is easier than you'd think. If it's a Saginaw steering box, swap in a bigger torsion bar. That'll give a bit more steering effort and a lot more road feel. There's other valving in the box that can be changed for more or less assist, or the pump can be modified for less pressure to give less assist.
Furious_E wrote:
The RX7 will be my first car with manual steering once it's up and running. Glad to hear all positive reviews from the other RX7 owners.
That one was done "right". The seals were removed. The entire rack was greased and resealed. The pinion was and valve assembly was welded. It will be difficult at low speeds, but awesome once moving even a few MPH.
amg_rx7 wrote:
The ... steering in my 1st gen RX7 is worse than the Miata.
Fixed that for you. Even with all new front end components, the 1st gen steering was NOT awesome.
I'm not a fan of Manual unless track only. Even then, if you have big sticky tires its still probably annoying.
My '94 Miata w/ 9"/225s had a manual rack. It was extremely annoying at parking lot speeds. It was pretty annoying at low speeds. The number of turns was absurd.
A buddy had a manual steering RX-7 GTU. It was also really annoying at low speeds.
A Saturn could be bought with a manual rack until 2002. I sure as hell wouldn't want it though.
I believe a Smart ForTwo could be had with a manual rack until 2015
1991 Escort Pony has manual rack. I use it for delivering pizza where I am city driving a lot. Lots of U-turns and stuff. But I do kinda have Popeye arms but am not sure if I have big arms because of the manual steering or vise-verse!
Bruce
wvumtnbkr wrote:
Furious_E wrote:
The RX7 will be my first car with manual steering once it's up and running. Glad to hear all positive reviews from the other RX7 owners.
That one was done "right". The seals were removed. The entire rack was greased and resealed. The pinion was and valve assembly was welded. It will be difficult at low speeds, but awesome once moving even a few MPH.
Well it's not bad to push around the driveway at least
ProDarwin wrote:
My '94 Miata w/ 9"/225s had a manual rack. It was extremely annoying at parking lot speeds. It was pretty annoying at low speeds. The number of turns was absurd.
???
I have this identical setup. If you're at an absolute dead stop, it's a pain, but the second you start moving, you can turn the wheel with one hand.
My 96 miata has a depowered rack and I love it. Last week I drove a humvee with broken power steering and it was terrible. You physically couldn't turn the wheel under 5mph and I do believe my hands and arms were sore for a few hours after I finished backing it into its parking space.
Both my zzw30 mr2s are depowered, wouldn't have it any other way with a small mid engined car.
Just going by Rock Auto, looks like the Volvo 240 series cars had a manual rack available until 1984.
Ian F
MegaDork
4/18/17 7:15 a.m.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse:
There is a guy (IIRC - Bob Foltz) who installed a manual 240 rack under his 1800. Not sure what it's like to drive, but I imagine it can't be any worse that a standard 1800 gear box (p/s was never available). My main concern is I think it completely screws up the Ackerman geometry, but for what he uses the car for I imagine that isn't a concern to him.
In reply to Ian F:
I looked at the rack in my 240 wagon, and it's front steer, just like the steering setup on the 122/ 1800 cars- just that they use a box and pitman arm. So I don't know that the rack really affects the Ackerman at all- you're basically just replacing the tie rods and center rod with the rack.
Also, something no one seems to know, the steering arms on the spindles of the 122/ 1800 bolt onto the spindles, so if you do convert to rear-steer, you can swap the arms around to correct for the Ackerman.
In theory, anyway- I've never done it, though I want to try.
Also, Porsche 924/944 have rack & pinion, front-steer, and the 924, at least, was offered with manual steering. Getting a bit old, but they're out there.