What is the most overpriced car (not a supercar) that is sold right now?

JFX001 wrote: Porsche is also famous for adding cost for little to no options.

Porsche charges ludicrous to remove things in special editions then charges you to add them back in. Its the perfect system.

codrus wrote:

cmcgregor wrote: In reply to drummerfromdefleopard: Just as a data point that really reinforces this concept: You can build a base Boxster that costs 130k, just through some "creative" optioning. That's getting pretty close to tripling the base price. a.k.a. printing money

Does that include the "bring us a paint chip and a fabric swatch and we'll paint it and upholster the interior any way you like" options?

Just envisioned a Boxster with denim interior - which would be worth 130k easily.

T.J. wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: Camry.

No, that can't be right. The Camry is bold.

Our dealer will sell you one for under $18k, according to his TV ads.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Just about anything designed to appeal to people with too much dough. Cadillac, Lincoln, German, Lexus instead of Toyota, Acura instead of Honda, anything with "rover" in the name, or most vehicles identified by 3 initials. STI, CTS, MKZ, SRT, etc.

Gee, who made you the arbiter of how much money someone is allowed to have. Do I have too much money because I have a Lincoln MkC? Or if I had spent more money on a Mustang would that be OK. People buy cars that suit their needs, wants and desires. Who are you to dictate how much money I should have. Do you want me to call my boss and ask for a pay cut as I must earn too much?

T.J. wrote: Subprime auto loans given to anyone who wants one no matter their credit score or ability to pay the loan back tend to result in more sales and distort the market. The notion that since cars are selling they are priced correctly is sort of a fallacy when they are in large part being bought with free money that won't be paid back. The banks learned from 2008 sub prime housing bubble, but instead of learning not to make risky loans and then package them up and sell the bundle, they decided to repeat the same game except with cars.

Well allowing for the ‘Great Recession’ Vehicle sales have been relatively constant for a decade now.
Year Sales (M)
2004 16.8
2005 16.9
2006 16.5
2007 16.1
2008 13.2
2009 10.4
2010 11.6
2011 12.7
2012 14.4
2013 16.5
2014 17.15

Average 17.75M, Standard Deviation 2.41, Median 16.1

If people were all in so far over their heads it would have caught up with the industry by now and sales would have collapsed and not recovered after the recession. For every numpty that rolls over $10K from their last car into a 60 month loan on their new $35K car there are dozens who either take their lumps and lease new every 2-4 years and have to pay off by the end of the period or buy cash or with a manageable 12-24-36 month loan and keep their car for at least the term of the loan, often longer.

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

If you want to look at "overpriced" from a pure Econ 101 point of view, then by definition, every car sold for less than MSRP was overpriced by the manufacturer.

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Tom_Spangler: If you want to look at "overpriced" from a pure Econ 101 point of view, then by definition, every car sold for less than MSRP was overpriced by the manufacturer.

Not necessarily. In many cases it's bacuse a customer can haggle between dealers or manufacturers to get a better price. If you have a Camyry and Accord both offered at $25K, they may be worth that. But if the customer can play the dealers off each other to save $1,000 then that's not saying they were overprice to start with. If both cars had stickered at $22, 23, 24 or 26K people will do the same. You can only make that argument if there is only one dealer and one option in town and it still doesn't sell for MSRP

sesto elemento wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: Tesla

I drove a p85d the other day, that thing pretty wicked (almost 700hp)

Yeah there's nothing overpriced about it. Not the kind of car I'd buy unless I had too much money, but the car could justify its price on luxury, performance, or tech alone...put all three together and it's not a bad deal.

Edit: Also they seem to be holding value pretty well and even have a factory resale value guarantee.

I think you have to consider volume in the equation as well. Sure a BMW X6M is expensive, but they don't make too many of them. Even the VW Bug Convertible, while based on one of the most common platforms on the planet, requires a lot of extra work and volumes are relatively low. You can option an F-150 to over $63,000. That's a truck that starts at $25,800 MSRP and they make more F150s in the time it took to read this post then BMW makes X6Ms in a year.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Economics still applies when there is competition too...In fact, that's pretty much one of the fundamental principles of it. Your example simply means there is too much local market supply and too little local market demand for the cars in question, which requires the dealerships to cut the selling price if they want to remain competitive and get the sale...Thus overpriced. Manufacturer rebates simply mean that the overpricing is even more severe, and not limited to the local level.

Don't get me wrong. Even if I dislike it and find it ridiculous, I do (mostly) understand the numerous factors that have led to this type of standardized-overpricing business model...But that doesn't change the fact that it's still overpricing.

used wranglers

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: Economics still applies when there is competition too...In fact, that's pretty much one of the fundamental principles of it. Your example simply means there is too much local market supply and too little local market demand for the cars in question, which requires the dealerships to cut the selling price if they want to remain competitive and get the sale...Thus overpriced. Manufacturer rebates simply mean that the overpricing is even more severe, and not limited to the local level.

I agree. If you want to see what is actually overpriced on the market, look for the cars with the biggest delta between the MSRP and the average sale price. I think Edmunds and such track that kind of thing, actually.

OK, here you go. An actual overpriced car. The Chevy Volt: http://jalopnik.com/gm-is-sitting-on-seven-months-worth-of-volts-1696952192

Chevy currently has a 210 day supply of Volts waiting to be sold. The ideal supply for an automaker is 60 days. This is 3.5 times that, which will be a burden on dealers to move through before the new car goes on sale. That means that a lot of incentives and discounts will probably be coming to the current Volt before the 2016 model goes on sale.

Diesel Cruze. Almost $10k more than base. Part of that is it is only fully loaded/auto. I will gladly give my money to VW for a basic, manual TDI car, and spend $4k less.

Streetwiseguy wrote: ...most vehicles identified by 3 initials. STI, CTS, MKZ, SRT, etc.

I don't agree with the 3 initial thing... bought an STI for ~$30K that is still worth ~$15K a decade later. $1500/year average depreciation since new is pretty good compared to all the stuff being discussed here. Shoot it's good compared to an Impreza econobox.

A 10 year old STI for $15k?...Now that is overpriced!

wearymicrobe wrote:

JFX001 wrote: Porsche is also famous for adding cost for little to no options.

Porsche charges ludicrous to remove things in special editions then charges you to add them back in. Its the perfect system.

Recipe for the 2016 Porsche Boxster Spyder
Add brakes from the 911 parts bin, tune the engine with a few 911 parts, put a plastic lid behind the hreadrests, then:
- remove the powered top (swap for cheaper manual top)
- remove the expensive DCT (replace with a manual gearbox)
- remove the air conditioning (buyer can add back for a fee)
- remove the radio (buyer can add back for a fee)

What do you pay for this? $83,000 plus options. That's thirty thousand dollars more than a base Boxster.

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

I think it may be time to start the long term search for a dealer with a lot full of them. Maybe someone can start snagging them for 22K. I would be hard pressed not to try and talk my wife into that.

This hunk of SH IT right here. There is no reason for this thing to even exist yet here it stands, proud as a fookin peacock. I hate this thing with every fiber of my being.

Zombie thread revival.

Just saw my first Volvo V90 in the wild and it made me think of this thread.

I think we are due for a session of OEM bitching.

Joe Gearin said:

Sine_Qua_Non wrote: Any BMW.

Now I know you can option up a new Boxster into seven figures.....that seems a bit much.

Isn’t 7 figures a million dollars?

Tom_Spangler said:

iceracer wrote: Well, lets see. The vehicle is selling well, the factory is making money so none are overpriced. If they start sitting on the dealers lot, then price may be one cause or something else.

Ah, I see I found the other person in the thread who's taken Econ 101.

This is about opinions regarding what we as members of GRM FEEL are overpriced ie: we feel like it’s a ripoff.

I don’t get the sense this thread was about pure economics.

As an aside, I cannot stand when someone says something such as “new trucks are too expensive” then some know it all pipes up with “no they’re not, they’re flying off the lots, so they can’t be overpriced”.

Just because the dealers are selling something in mass quantities DOES NOT mean they’re not too expensive for what they are. 

That there’s thousands of people with enough money to jump on a given bandwagon does not speak in any way to the value of that item.

ebonyandivory said:

Joe Gearin said:

Sine_Qua_Non wrote: Any BMW.

Now I know you can option up a new Boxster into seven figures.....that seems a bit much.

Isn’t 7 figures a million dollars?

Well if Singer get involved...

Tom_Spangler said:

None of these cars are overpriced. Not as long as sufficient people are buying them.

"The worth of a thing is the price it will bring."

Agreed, but that is delving into semantics.  Shall we agree that the proper term might be "overvalued"?

lnlogauge said:

I looked everywhere for a R-Line convertible for the wife. Basically a topless GTI at that point. 

Beetles are marked up then marked way down. Like 6K off stticker on the last one that we bought which made it a screaming deal for the quality of car that it was. 

Not a supercar but a fast car. GTR. YEah I am not paying 140K for a Nissan no matter how many BLACK badges you put on it. 

Tom_Spangler said:

OK, here you go. An actual overpriced car. The Chevy Volt: http://jalopnik.com/gm-is-sitting-on-seven-months-worth-of-volts-1696952192

Chevy currently has a 210 day supply of Volts waiting to be sold. The ideal supply for an automaker is 60 days. This is 3.5 times that, which will be a burden on dealers to move through before the new car goes on sale. That means that a lot of incentives and discounts will probably be coming to the current Volt before the 2016 model goes on sale.

 

I disagree with one bit in the quoted text.  An ideal supply would be 1 day.  However, manufacturers target is crap from a lean perspective.  

How long does it take to make 1? What is the demand?  If it takes 12 hours to make 1, then the ideal is 1/2 a day of supply if the demand is 1 per day.  Those are obviously made up numbers in my example.

That is the ideal situation.