What i've been warning people about $250k fine and possible 20 years for "importing" a Silvia.

pinchvalve wrote: "It has a unique aerodynamic frame, chrome detailing, and turbo-charged engine. In other words, it's very fast." Even if the Silvia had a frame (it doesn't) I highly doubt it would be very aerodynamic as it is usually not exposed to much wind, what with being under/inside the car and all. Even Ferrari uses tunnels and panels to direct airflow under the car, not a frame. And chrome detailing makes it very fast? In what way precisely? How does that work? "The Nissan 240sx is the closest thing to a Silvia in the United States." IIRC, the 240sx WAS a Silvia in the US. Not close, exactly the same. Different engine and options, but same car. "the wide headlights slope inward from the sides and combine with lower fog lights to give the driver high visibility in sub-par conditions." This is why the Silvia is so special? That is worth going to jail over? Sloped headlights? Really? Who wrote this article? My 3 year old could have done better.

A blithering idiot wrote that article, that's who.

And the way I see it, its been known for 27 years that you can't do what this moron did without going by the book. Could he get one in as a special "Show/Display/Competition" vehicle? Absolutely. Could he get one in a registered drivable car? With a whole heck of a lot of hoops, money, and work, yes. Did this dipE36 M3 do any of that? No, he probably had a vin off a 1989 240sx. Do I have any mercy/pity for him? HELL NO. Do I agree with these laws? No, but you're still a dipE36 M3 for attempting to circumvent them and deserve what your "Reward" is for breaking them. You don't see me out converting every glock pistol to full auto because I think the NFA ban on new production F/A is bullE36 M3. Same thing applies here. Respect the law and try to get it changed the proper way if you don't like it. Don't bitch about getting caught for willfully breaking it. End of story.

In reply to alfadriver: I've seen a lot of much older rides, everything from 4X4 pickups to VW Beetles being used by rural route drivers to deliver mail. Some are LHD and some RHD. They're owned and maintained, or at least some are maintained, by the rural route postal employe, not the government.

I've never understood why the rural route drivers of LHD vehicles are allowed to sit on the right side of the vehicle with the driver's seat full of mail and drive their route! I assume I'd be pulled over for reckless driving if I were spotted driving in the manner they do while on the clock every day.

Wally wrote: On the bright side when he gets out his car will be legal.

If he were to import a different one....aren't those already in the country disallowed from ever being legal under the 25yr rule?

Rupert wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I've seen a lot of much older rides, everything from 4X4 pickups to VW Beetles being used by rural route drivers to deliver mail. Some are LHD and some RHD. They're owned and maintained, or at least some are maintained, by the rural route postal employe, not the government. I've never understood why the rural route drivers of LHD vehicles are allowed to sit on the right side of the vehicle with the driver's seat full of mail and drive their route! I assume I'd be pulled over for reckless driving if I were spotted driving in the manner they do while on the clock every day.

They started cracking down on this in my area, so most of our rural carriers have RHD Jeeps now. My father used to be a rural carrier from 1985-1996, most own their own vehicles, and back when he did it, LHD was the most common. Its not as unsafe as you would like to believe as they aren't going very fast delivering the mail.

GameboyRMH wrote: Ok, not RHD then, but there are plenty of '70s/'80s cars on the road that have more outdated safety and pollute more. Nobody's hitting them with quarter-million-dollar fines or putting them in jail for 2 decades.

You've not been to California recently then. They make it such a pain to deal with an older car that many that aren't outside of the emissions exemption are scrapped or illegally registered outside of areas of Cali where they are emissions exempt.

Curmudgeon wrote: $250k fine and 20 years for grey market importing of one vehicle? That's pretty damn dumb. It's not like the guy was making a habit of it, unless there is something that was left out of the story. Naw, that never happens...

That would be my take on it, too. There has to be more to this story, like creative VINning or something.

That guy needed a better lawyer

I'm assuming that the car was newer than 25 years old? Probably a Vin swap with a 240. I'd imaging the penalty for the forged paperwork is steeper than just bringing the car over. I don't get why you'd risk having it crushed just to not wait.

S15 is 1995-on, so yes.

moparman76_69 wrote: I don't get why you'd risk having it crushed just to not wait.

Because he wanted street cred.....but he's getting prison cred instead.

BoxheadTim wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: $250k fine and 20 years for grey market importing of one vehicle? That's pretty damn dumb. It's not like the guy was making a habit of it, unless there is something that was left out of the story. Naw, that never happens...

That would be my take on it, too. There has to be more to this story, like creative VINning or something.

Yea, I think so, too. I'm sure people remember when some dealer was being prosecuted for bringing in Alfa 156's, and much of that was being directed from the EPA. Turned out that most of the prosecution issues had way more to do with fraud than just brining in non-legal cars.

I'd guess they are just trying to get sympathy over the whole $250k for an ilegal car idea. The laws broken probably go pretty deep.

GameboyRMH wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote:

stuart in mn wrote: I don't think protecting dealerships has anything to do with it. It's whether a car meets EPA and DOT requirements.

Meanwhile, how many 70s/80s V8-powered cars that have been ghetto-converted to RHD for delivering mail are in use?

Not sure, but maybe a less than a dozen? In the whole country? I really doubt any mail deliverer is drining a +30 year old car.

Ok, not RHD then, but there are plenty of '70s/'80s cars on the road that have more outdated safety and pollute more. Nobody's hitting them with quarter-million-dollar fines or putting them in jail for 2 decades.

ok … I'm guessing that there's some part of … one's against the law and the other isn't

It's easy to change the law- talk to your congressman.

Many people have talked to them about this, they don't have a big enough lobby for them to listen.

You basically would need a successful petition to the government, there have been several attempts but none have got enough signatures in time.

If he were to import a different one....aren't those already in the country disallowed from ever being legal under the 25yr rule?

Well it's probably going to be crushed so it wont matter at that point lol

moparman76_69 wrote: I'm assuming that the car was newer than 25 years old? Probably a Vin swap with a 240. I'd imaging the penalty for the forged paperwork is steeper than just bringing the car over. I don't get why you'd risk having it crushed just to not wait.

Oh i'm sure some fraud or lying is involved. Like that guy who imported his GTR in January of last year didn't give them the month of manufacture and they registered it. There is no way it crosses the border into an american's hands and is registered without lying about something.

kanaric wrote:

It's easy to change the law- talk to your congressman.

Many people have talked to them about this, they don't have a big enough lobby for them to listen.

If he were to import a different one....aren't those already in the country disallowed from ever being legal under the 25yr rule?

Well it's probably going to be crushed so it wont matter at that point lol

Not enough. When you get to that critical mass that will decide an election, then you can have the laws changed.

Still- I doubt that you'll find enough people who are willing to do it.

While it's great to blame the dealer, and pretend that the OEM is protecting their turf, they are also trying to keep distance from cars that they have no ability to support in the US. Or want to. Or want to be sued by someone who has an accident in on of these ilegal cars. Ferrari was sued because they sold a car that was too high of performance for the person who bought it.

kanaric wrote:

stuart in mn wrote: I don't think protecting dealerships has anything to do with it. It's whether a car meets EPA and DOT requirements.

Merc dealerships in the 80s and gray imports are why the 25 year rule exists. It was an act passed specifically to protect dealerships for German makes. Importing a car from Germany was cheaper than buying one in the US and on top of it the cars were lighter and much more powerful in some cases. A 928 for example had about 100 more horsepower. I think the act had even Mercedes in the title of the law. I forget what it was called.

There were still rules in place prior to that. For the record, my daily driver (the car in my avatar) is a grey market M535i that was imported to the US when it was new in 1986. The company that brought it in had to do all kinds of modifications to meet the EPA/DOT requirements (installing a catalytic converter, reinforced bumpers, adding side collision beams in the doors, and a bunch of other stuff) so it's not like the grey market cars from that era just skated into the US - even before that Motor Vehicle Safety Compliance Act was passed in 1988 the cars still needed to meet all the regulations.

alfadriver wrote: It's easy to change the law- BECOME A BILLIONAIRE THAT EMPLOYS THOUSANDS IN HIS DISTRICT AND/OR DUMP BUCKETS OF MONEY AT HIS FEET ANDtalk to your congressman.

Fixed. If all of us lived in the same town and we all wrote letters nothing would happen. Try getting to TALK to your congressman for more than 30 seconds about anything meaningful and get back to me.

Junkyard_Dog wrote:

alfadriver wrote: It's easy to change the law- BECOME A BILLIONAIRE THAT EMPLOYS THOUSANDS IN HIS DISTRICT AND/OR DUMP BUCKETS OF MONEY AT HIS FEET ANDtalk to your congressman.

Fixed. If all of us lived in the same town and we all wrote letters nothing would happen. Try getting to TALK to your congressman for more than 30 seconds about anything meaningful and get back to me.

There have been petitions at whitehouse.gov I think several times in the past. None of them got enough signatures in time generally starting to pick up steam near the end of the end date because there was never enough publicity on it. They always respond to those if they get enough signatures.

In reply to Junkyard_Dog:

As soon as said congressman sees that he/she will lose an election because of this one issue, they will change their minds.

The problem with THIS issue is that it impacts so few people that nobody gives a crap.

In reply to Junkyard_Dog:

It isn't easy, but there are proper ways to change them. Legislation or Litigation are two ways that come to mind. In this case, I'd rather see this moron get strung up for 5yrs minimum inside and fined the full $250k hit. Might as well make him repay the average $42k/yr it costs to keep a dipE36 M3 in normal prison.

kanaric wrote: There have been petitions at whitehouse.gov I think several times in the past. None of them got enough signatures in time generally starting to pick up steam near the end of the end date because there was never enough publicity on it. They always respond to those if they get enough signatures.

I hope you're being sarcastic there, there was more than 10x the signatures required to have Piers Morgan deported from the country....That site is only for the collection of information and is probably run by the NSA.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Junkyard_Dog: It isn't easy, but there are proper ways to change them. Legislation or Litigation are two ways that come to mind. In this case, I'd rather see this moron get strung up for 5yrs minimum inside and fined the full $250k hit. Might as well make him repay the average $42k/yr it costs to keep a dipE36 M3 in normal prison.

kanaric wrote: There have been petitions at whitehouse.gov I think several times in the past. None of them got enough signatures in time generally starting to pick up steam near the end of the end date because there was never enough publicity on it. They always respond to those if they get enough signatures.

I hope you're being sarcastic there, there was more than 10x the signatures required to have Piers Morgan deported from the country....That site is only for the collection of information and is probably run by the NSA.

It's to give the public a digital punching bag to take their anger out on first, NSA data collection is just a handy side-effect

Here is the problem. There is not a public outcry to get this changed. The amount of enthusiast that even care about this is small and not very well organized. Honestly, I'm kind of in the who cares group too. I mean there are some awesome cars I'd love to have but I don't see myself importing and trying to maintain an even 15 Y/O never sold in america car....Although an Evo 9 wagon would be a prefect fit for what I'm looking for.

As for the potential fine and jail time, That is the max sentence. With the journalist quality of the rest of the work in that article, they really didn't make that too clear. Federal penalties are always a lot stiffer than the State and local penalties. Bet this guy just gets the car crushed and a 25-50K fine. Maybe a couple years and be released in 1 if it shows he was really skirting the law bad and or really pissed the judge/jury off.

Once again, There really is not a way to skate the rules and all of the attempts over the last few years has just made the government even more aware and active to prevent these. Anyone that tells you oh it's legally here and doesn't have a DOT and EPA certificate are full of it. I ask for that all of the time on the Ebay listings and have never gotten anyone to reply with authentic papers.

I hope you're being sarcastic there, there was more than 10x the signatures required to have Piers Morgan deported from the country....That site is only for the collection of information and is probably run by the NSA.

Not being sarcastic at all and I seem to recall the government responding to that as well.

They don't have to do it. It's to make them aware of things and to get a response. If they are made aware of issues with import rules they may change it or at least respond to requests to change it. That's the point of the petition.

A petition to deport someone is just moronic and will only get a "well we can't do that" response.

In fact they did respond to it: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-british-citizen-piers-morgan-attacking-2nd-amendment/prfh5zHD

BoxheadTim wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: $250k fine and 20 years for grey market importing of one vehicle? That's pretty damn dumb. It's not like the guy was making a habit of it, unless there is something that was left out of the story. Naw, that never happens...

That would be my take on it, too. There has to be more to this story, like creative VINning or something.

That's the maximum possible fine. He'll get a fine of some sort, they will crush his car, and the next time he will buy one that's 25 years old.

GameboyRMH wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to Junkyard_Dog: It isn't easy, but there are proper ways to change them. Legislation or Litigation are two ways that come to mind. In this case, I'd rather see this moron get strung up for 5yrs minimum inside and fined the full $250k hit. Might as well make him repay the average $42k/yr it costs to keep a dipE36 M3 in normal prison.

kanaric wrote: There have been petitions at whitehouse.gov I think several times in the past. None of them got enough signatures in time generally starting to pick up steam near the end of the end date because there was never enough publicity on it. They always respond to those if they get enough signatures.

I hope you're being sarcastic there, there was more than 10x the signatures required to have Piers Morgan deported from the country....That site is only for the collection of information and is probably run by the NSA.

It's to give the public a digital punching bag to take their anger out on first, NSA data collection is just a handy side-effect

I certainly hope the government ignores most of those petitions. The vast majority of them would be submitted by flakes, I imagine.

E36 M3, I bet you could generate enough sigs to deport Obama in about 20 minutes. Or, 8 years ago, enough to deport Dubya...

Keith Tanner wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

Rupert wrote: Interesting. In the '60s I knew a guy who had relatives in Germany. He was self employed and took about a month off each year and went to Germany. While there he would buy a new 911 on the factory delivery plan. He'd drive the car in Germany then have it shipped back to the US. He'd then sell his one year old 911 at enough markup to help pay for his trip. He was so meticulous with his cars you'd think they were just off the showroom floor at one year old.

While I was in college it became the thing for professors to vacation in Europe for the summer while driving a Mercedes they had bought upon arrival from the factory. They would ship it back as a used car and obviously saved a lot of money.

Of course, European delivery is a legit thing. As long as you take delivery of a US-spec car.

Oh it was totally legal at the time. I suspect it was a US spec car and I suspect that this the only place they were made at the time. My graduate advisor got one of the first model 5 cylinder 300Ds (1975ish). Another prof got a 240D.

amg_rx7 wrote: That guy needed a better lawyer

My guess would be the guy wasn't being very honest about the whole deal, maybe like swapping VINs or something.

Remember the video of the car nazis crushing the Mini? A bit of overkill. I don't think that owner was aware it wasn't a legal car (yea right).