What manufacturer has the most racing depth?

We're doing a thought exercise tying to figure out which manufacturer has the broadest representation in sports car racing. Basically we're including everything from major amateur (Runoffs, National Solo) to IMSA-level stuff. 

So, who raced the most separate models of cars or cars in their corporate history (for this exercise, we're considering purpose-built stuff as part of a manufacturer's history if it's specifically branded. i.e. a Cadillac DPi is a Cadillac because Cadillac wants you to think it is. A Corvette GTP is a Chevy, but a Chevy-powered Spice GTP is not.

Go.

Gotta be hard to beat Mazda for grassroots-to-pro-level involvement.  Maybe BMW?

There's this brand that seems to have presence all the way from grassroots to IMSA and Le Mans. Might've even won Le Mans with a funny engine. Can't quite remember the name right now but I think it starts with an 'M' .

Numbers wise I would say Mazda then GM.

It depends on how liberal you are with the type of racing. Just Sports Car? Are we going to consider other affordable racing venues?

On pure numbers, Mazda no doubt.

For provenance and years of commitment, then it's really either Porsche or Ferrari. I would lean more to Porsche just because they have a much better club racing and lower level ladder series with the GT3 cup and PCA racing. 

In reply to QuasiMofo :

Agreed, what's the scope of what we're looking at here? Just road racing and auto x type stuff? Probably Mazda hands down. If you wanna include roundy round, drag racing, ect then I'll bet it's probably GM. 

I'm leaning towards Ferrari for most total different models of cars ever driven in contests of speed. 

Mazda and Porsche may have Ferrari beat on total number of individual cars raced, but that's not the question being posed.  For all the years it has been around, within the confines of these mental gymnastics it would seem that the Porsche 911 still only counts as 1 model of car.  Same with the Miata still only counting as 1 model, regardless of how many are raced and how many series' their raced in.  Then there is Ferrari, who not only comes out with a new model of sports car that gets raced every few years, but also comes out with a "new model " of car for F1 pretty much every year.

Driven5 said:

I'm leaning towards Ferrari for most total different models of cars ever driven in contests of speed.  Mazda and Porsche may have Ferrari beat on total number of individual cars, but that's not the question.  For all the years it has been around, within the confines of these mental gymnastics it would seem that the Porsche 911 still only counts as 1 model of car.  Same with the Miata still only counting as 1 model, regardless of how many are raced and how many series' their raced in.  Then there is Ferrari, who not only comes out with a new model of sports car that gets raced every few years, but also comes out with a "new model " of car for F1 pretty much every year.

If Ferrari branded all of their 4xx cars the same, would your answer change? Seems that all those mid-engined V8s are about as different as the various 911 evolutions over the same period, and saying the 1960's 911 is the same model as the current one is paying attention to nothing more than the number on the badge and the location of the engine.

Furious_E said:

In reply to QuasiMofo :

Agreed, what's the scope of what we're looking at here? Just road racing and auto x type stuff? Probably Mazda hands down. If you wanna include roundy round, drag racing, ect then I'll bet it's probably GM. 

Or boats, planes, pulling trucks, atv, sleds, motorcycles, etc.

Then I pick one of: kawasaki, suzuki, honda, or yamaha. Maybe honda because they have a pretty big car racing scene too.

edit: re-reading the original post, there is a pretty specific scope already laid out.

Peugeot has raced a LOT both on and off road all over the world for a long time. 

Mazda does great on total numbers, but not breadth of models, which is what we're looking for.

We're thinking Nissan/Datsun has to be high on the list as well. Think how many Nissans over the years have been involved in high-profile road racing: Roadsters, 510s, 210s, Zcars of every generation, Sentras, Altimas for heaven's sake, all of the GTP and modern prototype stuff.

Mazda's raced four generations of Miatas, three generations of RX7, GLCs, 323s, Proteges, RX8s, 626s, Cosmos - heck, I'll bet if you looked at the percentage of models raced they'd have some pretty solid numbers, especially for factory support.

Porsche has got to be in the hunt for the total number of models, especially if you distinguish between all the 911 variants as well as all those custom-built race cars they built 50 years ago. Ferrari also had a lot of low volume racers back in the 60s.

...and now I know that Mazda UK built a rally version of one of my favorite old Mazdas, and I want it.

GM is hard to pin down due to all the different badges they own across the world. Never mind, Chevy, GMC, Buick, Cadillac, but you also have Daewoo, Opel, Holden, Vauxhall and Wuling. Then you get to add the dead brands of Oldsmobile, Saturn, Saab, Hummer. I am sure there are a few I missed too.

But yes, my money is on Porsche. They supported racing from Grassroots all the way up to F1

With a Single Maker being what we talk here -No doubt FORD.  what are the Photos you see from 1903, That is 100 and 15 years ago. Ford has been racing since the First (Second )Car Lined up beside it. Long before Pontiac, Chevrolet, Buick,Oldsmobile,Cadillac became GM. but believe this, I grew up on Stories of French, Italian, German and English racers and Cars Pre-WWII and Relish the Thought of just Touching or being in the Same room with Most of them.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I didn't ask the question...I only answered it as it was asked.  If the question asked is not the question intended, like if 'alternative definitions' of words are required, then it should be restated more accurately.   If we can't agree on definitions, then no consensus can or will ever be reached.

However, even if you allow different generations of a car to be considered different 'models' I still think Ferrari is likely to beat out Mazda and Porsche.  The only way Porsche stands a chance is if every variant of every generation is considered a stand alone model, but even that's not a given as Ferrari has done much of that too...And that's an amendment of the question that would have to come from the source.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Please clarify the intended definition of the word "model" as it relates to your question.  Is it the name on the car, the generation of the name on the car, or the variant of the generation of the name on the car?  I don't know if this would even matter, but just to be able to factor it in, can it be applied across brand lines when under the guise of badge engineering?  And along those lines, how does corporate ownership play in?  Does it have to be Chevy separate from Pontiac, or do both count as GM? 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Actually IIRC also they ran the R100 at least in Japan and potentially as a rally car as well. The RX3 was also a pretty popular race car and as you pointed out they've run the early Cosmos as race cars, too.

But of course by the time they came onto the scene, companies like Alfa, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and Lotus were already well established as sporty car manufacturers that also produced race cars.

Come to think of it, Alfa probably has to be in there, too. They definitely raced before Ferrari or Porsche were a brand and they kept going at least into the 1990s. Not sure if they raced any newer stuff than, say, the 155 in DTM.

Ford. LeMans with the GT40 MkII and MkIV, and now the new EcoBoost GT; WRC with the Focus, Escort Mk1, RS200, Sierra Cosworth, etc, etc, etc; sportscar racing in all of the various series from Challenge Pintos to Trans-Am Mustangs, Bathurst Falcons, etc; and local/amateur support through Ford Motorsports. I don't think there's and pro series that they haven't competed and won in, from SCCA Runoffs categories all the way up to F1 and LeMans. They've won LeMans, Daytona, Sebring, Indy, Monaco, Bathurst, etc, etc. Even just grouping all sub-models (like the different breeds of Mustang) into 1 entry they have:

Formula Ford!

Pinto

Fiesta 

Focus

Escort RWD

Escort FWD

Contour

Capri

Sierra/Merkur

Falcon

Mustang

GT

Cobra

Thunderbird

Lotus has raced over 100 models.  Probably closer to 120 if you include the 2 bicycles.

GTXVette said:

Ford has been racing since the First (Second )Car Lined up beside it.

I don't think 'street racing' counts. 

Ford is a strong contender though.

Well, it's good to see that this is yet another subject upon which we can all agree.

Good discussion. I had forgotten about the 626s and MX6s that Mazda ran in IMSA into the 1990s. 

Ford is a good call as well. While it doesn't help on the sports car side, any manufacturer involved in NASCAR certainly upps the quantity of models involved in motorsport since those tend to not be models used in other forms of racing (until the recent inclusion of Camaros).

As for 911s, that's a tough call. I'm tempted to say all 911s and variants thereof are the same model, because I kind of think that's how Porsche wants us to see it. To us, a Carrera RS is a very different car than a slope-nose 935, but I have a feeling Porsche sees both of those as 911s for their bragging rights purposes. 

A lot of variables here.  Are you including Europe?  If so, Fiat or Abarth are probably very high on the list, especially all of the 600 based cars.  Triumphs and MGs are also probably very high, for the past 25 years or so it would more than likely be Mazda.  

+1 for Ford, as they also race in the Australian Supercar Series, the WRC, Dakar, Cargo Formula Truck Racing, Trophy Truck and if you really, REALLY stretch the definition, the Stout 2AT-2 competed in reliability air tours.  

A lot of the cars being listed here are rally cars, which is not "sports car racing" in my book.  Same for open wheel cars and NASCAR, not sure about Australian V8 supercars.

If the rule is "has a different name badge on the back", then I think the winner is going to be Ferrari because he gave different names to a lot of cars that most manufacturers would consider minor model tweaks, and pretty much all of them got raced.  Lotus is up there, but a lot of their early models are open wheel formula cars.