What Rally Cross car would you build?

turtl631 wrote: How hard is rallycross on a car? I'm guessing that is pretty region and course dependent. But other than getting dirt on/in everything and sand blasting your paint, are there any other common forms of damage? I've not been to an event but I'd assume you'd get a lot of boost buggies showing up, and they're relatively new and expensive.

Watching and listening to various onboard video runs over the years, it definitely seems rough enough that I wouldn't want to subject any car I needed to count on.

If there are ruts it can be hard on your suspension. Even if the course is not rutted, you want enough suspension travel to keep any fragile plastic bits out of the dirt. I've seen some newer WRXes with lowered suspension scrape up their lips a bit on pretty smooth tracks by going off-course and into the loose dirt.

That said, I rallycross my daily driver and have no worries about getting home afterwards, and probably more than half of the rallycross participants in the area drive their cars to and from the events around here.

Debeading your tire is probably your biggest worry on any given day.

No you don't get much seat time, and yes it's very hard for many SCCA regions to keep their programs moving forward. But honestly it's just as much if not more seat time than you'd get at any Solo event

That being said, I do think the SCCA could do more to promote it, both regionally and nationally. It is the cheapest form of racing the SCCA offers and in this economy you'd think there would be more people drawn to it, but it still remains largely unknown.

We also need some sort of connection to GRC. We have to get the word out to the Ken Block fanboys that "yes you can do an amateur version of this, and for a hell of a lot cheaper than you thought"

Also, there has been rumors floating that European style (door to door) rallycross might be experimented with in the future. WE NEED THIS TO HAPPEN!! I think it would be an excellent progression from what we have now for those that are inclined, just like the natural progression that some take from Solo to road racing.

A few of us are trying to put a Euro rallycross series together to run at local dirt stock car tracks in Florida, as an exhibition during their weekly racing programs . We haven't made anything public yet, but soon we will.

i'll echo the sediments that outside of debeading a tire the most common damage is normally to splitters, splash shields, rocker moldings and maybe belly pans. A well placed, well designed cheap to make protective under cover even if just made from a decent gauge ABS plastic can prevent 90% of said damage from occuring with the exception of the tire debeading, which 40+ psi or used rally tires help with.

In reply to Aeromoto:

YES! more grassroots euro rallycrosses are needed, a few guys had one at pocono and one at NJMP in the past few years. There's one coming up in Washington state.

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?61745-GRC-style-RallyCross-Mar-16th&p=539513#post539513

But this and rallysprints are what's needed in the sport. Stage rally is great, but $2000 in tow fund and lodging for a weekend make it a deal breaker for most. Not to mention the at least an added day prior for travel and shakedown cutting into a regular work schedule.

For national competition, I've always wanted to build an MR2 or Fiero. I think they'd do quite well.

A CRX that has been raised a little would probably do well, too.

aussiesmg wrote: I am resurrecting my $2009 and $2010 challenger, the 96 S10, as my rallycrosser.

Is there a build thread for this?

Brett_Murphy wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: I am resurrecting my $2009 and $2010 challenger, the 96 S10, as my rallycrosser.

Is there a build thread for this?

Someone said in an earlier post that pickups weren't allowed in SCCA events. Does anyone know the answer to that?

It is up to the event coordinator. Stock height or lowered pickups are generally fine. If they appear to be a rollover risk the safety steward could tell them they can't run.

Graefin10 wrote: Someone said in an earlier post that pickups weren't allowed in SCCA events. Does anyone know the answer to that?

There is no national rule prohibiting trucks but there is a clause that the safety steward for an event may deny any vehicle that he or she deems to be unable to safely navigate the course. Many regions disallow all trucks, others only disallow 4x4s/lifted trucks, still others go on a case by case basis.

Certainly, cars are tippy enough that I couldn't imagine driving a truck, even ignoring that trucks tend to be the antithesis of nimble, which is a high priority.

Most trucks are not nimble, but somehow an XJ was the most nimble car at the 2013 Challenge.

Aeromoto wrote: Sorry for getting pissy, and I'm not calling anyone out, but I just get sick of the same two platforms (the E30 and Miata) being a knee jerk reaction to everything. Good cars, no doubt, but there's more out there, and how friggin boring would it be if everyone drove the same car? Yes Colin's E30 and the Z are always neck and neck. He won the championship last season, I won the two previous to that. So far in 2014 the Z has won 2 events and Colin has won 1. The E30 turns in better, I suspect because there's so much weight over the front axle, but as far as exiting a corner, gripping, and powering down a straight, the Z can't be beat. It has excellent weight transfer and way more power than any of the E30s that have come out. As far as the radiator, I've never had a problem with it as far as getting damaged. I did ditch the stock fans and it currently runs an SHO Taurus dual fan set up. Underneath the car has been skid plated with steel diamond plate from the front bumper to the oil sump. The gas tank has been double-bottomed as well, and the exhaust is tucked into the tranny hump.You'd pretty much have to find a boulder and reverse up on top of it to damage anything. Once again, Sorry for getting pissy, but the E30/Miata thing is getting like Stairway to Heaven- great song, but how many times do you have to hear it? And that's not intended to discount your car Irish, it's an awesome build and I salute you.

lol, you know I just like to counterpoint things. And I wanted to see if Colin is as good as i thought he was ;)

I too get tired of the Miata thing, and used to tire of the e30 thing as well (I was a big e30 doubter before I caved and bought one). I prefer to race a car that is "different" or "not expected" (I autocrossed a maxima for years)...which is awesome if it's just about fun. Give me any RWD car and I'll have a blast in it in rallycross. And while rallycross is far more about the driver than, say, autocross (where car selection and setup matters a lot more)....I'd still say that there are maybe about 10-15 RWD cars out there that could be truly competitive in rallycross assuming all drivers/conditions being equal. The Miata, MR2, e30, and e36 are all definitely on that list (since there are a lot of them doing it, proving it). I think plenty of other cars (911, 944, Z31, 240SX, BR-Z/FR-S, etc) may be just as or even more competitive, but there's just not a very big sample size on people running them to tell whether the ones out there win because of good drivers, or because the cars are actually better. So when someone asks "what's good for xxx motorsport," I think the typical response is going to be to get one of the cars that excels in that on a widespread basis, for ease of the build/resources if nothing else. I'm sure you could take a Starlet and turn it into a rallycross beast, but you'd really be limited by parts availability, a smaller motorsports knowledge base overall, and lack of being able to find parts at the pick-and-pull!

So take it as a complement if someone doubts the z31's rallycross chops.....all it means is that they're saying you're a great driver if they don't think the car is the best

Most of the e30 guys really don't think the M42-powered e30 (mine) is truly as competitive as a 325i with the M20B25 (or another higher-powered engine). I would probably tend to agree with them in a general sense. The lighter/higher-revving setup suits my driving style more maybe. And I have set the car up better than many of the competing e30s in my class (IMO) in terms of suspension, balance, etc. Or maybe I just say that because "it's what I have" haha...

Aeromoto wrote: But honestly it's just as much if not more seat time than you'd get at any Solo event

Way more IMO. If you go to a WDCR autocross, you get 4 runs (avg. maybe 90 seconds if that?). If you go to a WDCR rallycross, you're going to get a minimum of 7-8 runs and if there is less turnout and no timing hiccups or other delays, we've had events where 14-15 runs were gotten (also anywhere from 70-120 seconds depending on course and conditions).

Not sure if that's the format at other regions though. But in rallycross you're going to get more seat time, either a little more or way more ;)

Aeromoto wrote: We also need some sort of connection to GRC. We have to get the word out to the Ken Block fanboys that "yes you can do an amateur version of this, and for a hell of a lot cheaper than you thought"

Adam Kimmet (our chair) and me did some pretty extensive "advertising" on various enthusiast forums (Subaru obviously, but also BMW, VW, Evo, Mazda 3/Miata/Protege, Audi, and some others). In 2011 I think the average WDCR event was about 20-25 cars. In 2012 it was more like 30-35. In 2013 I think every event was a sellout (60 cars).

I can forward you a link to our "here's what rallycross is" post if you're interested and want to copy it.

EDIT here's one of them: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=277817

Also, I'll send you $5 if you buy this and use it for rallycross:

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cto/4320548732.html

back when the WDCR events were at Orange (further away from population centers and no roadcourse track 400 yards away to cross pollenate and promote with. 45-80 drivers were the norm, if word gets out, and events are well run people will come out. The cool thing is that different regions will find small groups of people within the region that trend towards certain cars during certain periods of time. In 04-06 GC 2.5 RS, B13 se-r and 16V neons (1st gen) were the hot ticket, which a few guys running FC Rx7 turbos and other various subarus. Fast forward ten years and it seems that the people heaviest into it are rwd gurus of car control and smiles opposed to shear speed and grip, opting for E30's and other things that slide. Yet the numbers have returned to what they previously were and popularity and buzz has returned even with losing the venue of the better part of the last decade. Management matters.

That and Summit Point was a great location....90 minutes from DC metro, so easy for people to get to.

Will be interesting to see this year with no Summit, since we'll likely be out at Martinburg or Frostburg or out there somewhere, more like 3+ hours drive for almost everyone who runs with us. I know a number of guys who probably won't come out regularly like they did last year. But on the flipside we may draw people from Pittsburgh area.

I

The S10 in the video races regionally here. He's quite competitive with it.

I say RallyX whatever you don't care about beating the snot out of.

In reply to Aeromoto:

I believe PA has one of these started but yes rallycross is growing and I would love to be on a larger scale wheel to wheel.

Martinsburg = my car being sponsored by gentlemen's establishments

Trucks and SUVs are legal in SCCA

Sure Irish, my email is aeromoto08@aol.com

We're at the point of a 30-35 car average. We would love to have a media officer in our region to work the forums, etc, but no one has stepped forward. It's hard to motivate people

Aeromoto wrote: Sure Irish, my email is aeromoto08@aol.com We're at the point of a 30-35 car average. We would love to have a media officer in our region to work the forums, etc, but no one has stepped forward. It's hard to motivate people

I posted the link in that post above. It links to a BMW forum, but that's our "form" solicitation for all the forums, maybe with a few customized words to fit whatever car it is we're talking to.

We don't really have "media" either, I just did it to help out. On the downside, 60 cars there instead of 35 means we all get less runs, so it is a double-edged sword for the competitors (if not for the organizers, who are bringing in more money that can then be spent on equipment, venue fees, etc).

Aeromoto wrote: Sure Irish, my email is aeromoto08@aol.com We're at the point of a 30-35 car average. We would love to have a media officer in our region to work the forums, etc, but no one has stepped forward. It's hard to motivate people

Step 1: Visit Subaru Forum. Step 2: Call them all Bob Costas. Step 3: ?????? Step 4: Profit

DaveEstey wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: Sure Irish, my email is aeromoto08@aol.com We're at the point of a 30-35 car average. We would love to have a media officer in our region to work the forums, etc, but no one has stepped forward. It's hard to motivate people

Step 1: Visit Subaru Forum. Step 2: Call them all Bob Costas. Step 3: ?????? Step 4: Profit

No, nobody wants more subarus at rallycrosses. It gets boring working a corner and all you see going by are blue GC 2.5RS's

It's the guys on bimmerforums, or Audizine, or VWflatbrimworld, or Hondatech, or whatever... who maybe never thought that their cars could rallycross, and always seem surprised to learn that they can.

Subaru guys, by default, assume that their cars can enter WRC or RA in stock condition....no need to recruit them, they already know about rallycross :)