What to restore?

A friend of mine has the idea of restoring/working on a car. He had ideas of either a 510 or a 2002. Would these be decent starter restoration cars? I recommended a Beetle, a Rabbit, Scirocco or a Gti instead.. What would be an ideal starter rookie restoration car?

old full size P-up

As a beginner, something that has a lot of aftermarket support would be ideal. I'm a HUGE Datsun guy and love 510's but I think the 2002 has better aftermarket support and would be better than everything but a Beetle in that regard.

I recommend he gets a car he really loves. I can't really imagine going through all the trouble to restore a car I didn't love. My X1/9 can be difficult to find parts for (compared to say an old Mustang or Camaro) but I really love the car so I keep working on it and enjoying it.

Another vote for something he gets a kick out of. That being said, maybe something a little newer for a first project?:

1985-1992 VW A2 chassis Golf or Jetta. Stout cars with a great variety of bodystyles (2dr hatch, 4dr hatch, 2dr coupe with trunk, 4dr with trunk) and engine options (8v gas, 16v gas, NA diesel and turbodisel). Still available reasonably cheap. A good candidate for late model engine swaps, too. Even the VR6 fits in one. New enough that you can still find one (especially in the right climate) that's not automatically a rustheap (I love BMW 2002s, but I haven't seen an unrestored one without holes in 15 years). Thriving aftermarket and enthusiast community. We like to say that anyone who's ever had one wants another one, and feel that they're the last of the "real" Volkswagens, before they got packed with power cupholders, heated headliners and other such nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mark_II http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=2 http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=809 http://www.corradoparts.com/Transmission-MKII_GOLF_JETTA_GTI.html

Fiat X1/9

miata?

E30?

1st Gen RX-7?

Something that he will enjoy yet still has good aftermarket support. Any old muscle car, late model Mustang/Camaro/Firebird/Corvette, old American pickups, certain sports cars like Datsun Z's and RX-7's, etc.

Ask about what he likes that is affordable and pick the one with the best aftermarket support.

Tell him to snag the Sprite that has been in the classifieds for a while, can't go wrong with the price. Throw a Miata 1.8 or 13B in it, add some Panasports and a rustoleum BRG (Hunter green) paint job, kick ass roll bar and some decent seats and drive the hell out of it.

restoring to original of restomod?

neon4891 wrote: old full size P-up

• eleventy billion

But, if you have to choose between the Datsun and the BMW, absolutely the BMW. No comparison in parts availability. The Bimmer also has superior online support, and it's a far more pleasing and solid car when finished.

Please define what he considers to be restoring a car. Because to some this could mean putting on a set of windshield wipers while for others it means complete disassembly of say 4-5 cars and then taking the best bits from all of them and making a couple of great cars. This also involves making parts for those that are not available. Fabrication of parts and engineering. Then there is the complete stripping of all paint, rebuilding the drive line etc. So as you can see the word "restore" can be a bit vague.

What does your friend like to do? Body work, mechanical, electrical? I no longer look for piled of junk with the intent of completely going through them. I know what I like to do and what is not so fun or I dont have the tools / facilities to do and try to avoid vehicles that require it.

I think the type of car is alot less important then what the project entails. This makes success much more likely and satisfaction and fun follow very close behind.

I've always wanted to restore a ratted-out 914, but then again, I'm mildly insane and like to create way too much work for myself.

A 2002 would be awesome.

If I still lived in Warminster, I would gladly give you guys a hand with that if you offered. Too bad I'm in H-burg now.

ddavidv wrote: The Bimmer also has superior online support, and it's a far more pleasing and solid car when finished.

NOW the gloves are off... I'll give you that the 2002 has more online support, but I think a number of Trans-Am championships where the 2002's were shut out by BRE 510's...

That aside, the quality and feel of the finished product is directly related to the quality of the work. I've driven rattle trap 2002's that were supposedly "fully restored" and I've driven well kept 510's that were still in original paint...

From experience - restore a car that you'll absolutely love. And make sure you drive a good one before you buy a bad one to restore.

Example 1:

I restored an old Mercedes 500SEC coupe - a car I bought because it was pretty, it was cheap, and the enthusiast magazines seemed to unanimously praise it. I had never driven one when I bought the car and the one I restored wasn’t drivable when I bought it. I tore into the project and restored it to a very high standard. However, when I got about 90% through the restoration, I got the opportunity to drive a perfect, never-restored, 20,000 mile time capsule of the same make and model. It would be the very first 500SEC I would ever drive.

To me, it drove like a Buick.

It took me almost a year to muster up the ambition to finish reassembling it because, despite all of the hard work and the gorgeous paint laid over laser-beam straight bodywork, I just wasn't excited about it anymore.

Example 2:

My parents were VW mechanics when I was growing up and they gave me a 1972 VW Super Beetle when I was only 6. I’ve now had it for 26 years. I learned to drive in it at 9. It became my first car at 16. It's been in storage for 15 years because, as a memento, I love it and I will never sell it.

As a car, though, I'm not crazy about it - so for 15 years I've been gathering parts and reading VW magazines, hoping I'll be inspired enough to even start the project.

240z

However, of your 2 choices, the 2002.

Just find one that isn't rusted to death.

gamby wrote: Just find one that isn't rusted to death.

Thats the most important part - if this is his first go around, look for something with as solid of a body/chassis as possible. Mechanicals are so much easier and faster to fix.

Exactly:

Step 1: set a budget

Step 2: define what restoration means? For example for me it's more refurbishing than restoration that I can undertake/enjoy.

Step 3: double your budget

Step 4: pick a car he really likes/wants to drive once it's done. It will take a lot of time, patience and money and if he's not dedicated to the project he'll lose interest (time and money with it) - ask me how I know.

If it's ineeded a small refurbishing project I too vote for an old pickup truck as well, they're relatively easy to work on and in the end you'll have a handy pickup truck to bring home parts and tow more projects home. It's like a workbench+vise - one of the first tools you build/acquire :) - ok I must be getting old looking for practicality.

Having been down this road myself - a couple more things to consider:

What kind of workspace is available - a one car garage filled up with holiday decorations and other crap is no better than no garage. If he doesn't have a garage and has to keep the project on the street, will the neighbors be accepting of it depending on its' condition.

What kind of (more like how many) tools does he own. For my '76 Bronco restomod, it gave me an excuse to buy a compressor, air tools, rollaway tool chest, 110v mig, etc, etc. Now I didn't pick all these up at the beginning of the project, but having the right tool for the job definitely makes it easier.

Next thing to consider is time. Does he have a free weekend to do an entire drivetrain swap or will he only have an hour here or a night there. Personally I like to accomplish a major subtask before I move on to the next. I find it very hard to start and stop in the middle of something an lose my train of thought and concentration.

Also - double the budget again You're gonna find a ton of stuff "while your in there" that will make sense to do it now than to redo it later.

My vote is a Jeep - plenty of aftermarket, paint and body don't have to be perfect on a 4x4, and easy resale if he ever decides to get rid of it - even if it's unfinished at the time.

Also instead of a 2002 or a 510, I would also look earlier and suggest the E30 or the A2 VW.

-Thor

92dxman wrote: What would be an ideal starter rookie restoration car?

A car that is 100% rust-free, 100% complete (down to the trim and interior), and totally unmolested.

Quoted for truth. Especially Step 3: repeat as necessary.

RussellH wrote: Exactly: Step 1: set a budget Step 2: define what restoration means? For example for me it's more refurbishing than restoration that I can undertake/enjoy. Step 3: double your budget Step 4: pick a car he really likes/wants to drive once it's done. It will take a lot of time, patience and money and if he's not dedicated to the project he'll lose interest (time and money with it) - ask me how I know. If it's ineeded a small refurbishing project I too vote for an old pickup truck as well, they're relatively easy to work on and in the end you'll have a handy pickup truck to bring home parts and tow more projects home. It's like a workbench+vise - one of the first tools you build/acquire :) - ok I must be getting old looking for practicality.

I will echo the A2 idea. Cheap parts are still available from anywhere, and they are a competent performer when set up right. Great platform to learn and modify.

E30 gets a bit expensive if you don't know where to buy parts, but definitely a car that one can get passionate about.

2002 is just expensive, and not nearly as much of a fun perfomer without some extra cash thrown at mods, IMHO.

This isn't a crazy performer, but its a fun muscle/pony/autoX project that might give him the bug; a 4th gen F-body. They are cheap, easy to fix, and can be great performers with little investment.

Another cheap idea would be a Caprice or Crown Vic. Cheap, and performance parts are available for pennies at the junkyard. Certainly not a great performer, but they can be QUITE fun.

Without a doubt the best way to get bang for your buck is to search out an abandoned project, this way much of the work and many parts have been purchased and installed by the PO.

I have done this a few times and it saves a LOT of $