What used SUV/Truck, in the $18-23k range would you suggest?

In reply to z31maniac :

You have the same needs as we do in terms of what to pull.  Thankfully, most of the midSUV/CUV's suggested are 3500lb tow capacity.  And while it seems "risky" to tow near it's limit- just remember that the tow capacity is more rated about going up a steep-ish grade in the middle of summer in Arizona- it's about cooling.  Modern brakes are really good- far better than small trucks rated for 2000lb more.

I'm sure there's a vehicle that has more capability- but a Ford Edge sized vehicle will work just fine if you can find one she likes.  All OEM's have a version of that sized vehicle.  Actually, the hard part may be to find one that already has the tow package in it.

FWIW, we are planning on towing almost the same trailer with an Escape in just over a month.  Assuming the Escape we ordered comes in time.

Check out the Highlander. They have a 5k towing capacity IIRC.

I also want to mention the Cayenne. You only live once. 

In reply to alfadriver :

True, but I'd also like the option of being able to tow the Miata occasionally if I wanted to attend a track event that isn't at Hallett. That's why I've been looking for stuff that has at least a 5k rating.

In reply to mtn :

Like the Touareg suggestion, I fear keeping it fed and happy will dramatically cut into the actual "let's hook up the trailer and berk off for a long weekend" budget. The idea is to be able to do that 1-2 times per month.

Hyundai SanteFe. Our 2005 would tow 5K and was dead reliable. Sold it with 225K miles and it was still running like a champ.

There's the 2nd gen Frontier option. They don't suffer from the Toyota tax and are solid trucks. The 4-door models are pretty sweet. 

2011 Touareg and newer tow 7700 pounds, 30 MPG unloaded, low 20's MPG loaded.  I've gotten 700 odd plus miles on a single tank doing highway miles. 

They are actually fairly reliable for a German car, and base Sport models can be found under your price range. 

I think a GX or an lexus LX is the way to go here.  For around 20K you can find a Lexus LX570 with higher miles.. 

You are kidding if there is even any consideration other than an LX570.  

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/815624104/overview/

Plenty out there under $25k.  Most reliable SUV on the planet.  400HP, 400 ft/lbs with a nice V8 that runs well on regular gasoline and a proper straight axle rear end and full frame for dat towing capability.  

In reply to z31maniac :

You shoudl be able to find one...  

But on a related note- do you already have a trailer?  If not, find a super light one.  Mine is 700lb, so adding my Alfa (same weight as a Miata) keeps the weight just over 3000lb, and that's been really nice to tow with an Edge (assuming all other similar vehicles are the same).  

But the non-full size SUV's that can tow 5k, well, find that list, and it will define what your choices are.

Here's a list of more capable SUV's- they are more modern, but you can use the list to backtrack older models- https://www.tflcar.com/2019/10/i-want-a-midsize-suv-that-can-tow-what-should-i-buy-2019-2020-update/

In reply to z31maniac :I was original owner of a 2000 LX470.  Sold it 14 years later with 235,000 mi.

Timing belt & water pump maybe every 75K mi.  Automatic height never had problem with.  Many parts also Toyota Landcruiser, making maintenance and repairs reasonable.  Only weird failure was ignition tumbler at 225k due to too many starts.

thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) said:

There's the 2nd gen Frontier option. They don't suffer from the Toyota tax and are solid trucks. The 4-door models are pretty sweet. 

Million mile examples

https://jalopnik.com/million-mile-nissan-frontier-traded-in-for-nearly-ident-1844610200

I like my mix 5000 lb w awd, comfortable daily driver

M d x darn autocorrect 

mr2s2000elise said:

thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) said:

There's the 2nd gen Frontier option. They don't suffer from the Toyota tax and are solid trucks. The 4-door models are pretty sweet. 

Million mile examples

 

https://jalopnik.com/million-mile-nissan-frontier-traded-in-for-nearly-ident-1844610200

I had a 2011 Crew Cab Pro-4X for a while. Like the 2006 350Z I had before it.........the interior quality is just absolutely abysmal.

Otherwise it's a damn solid truck. I purposely tried a few times to get it stuck in the mud in 2wd. And I did, out it on the framerails a few times. 

Switch to 4wd, lock the rear diff, and it just pulled itself out like it wasn't even stuck.

John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) said:

Nissan Pathfinder made a version with the Armada 5.6L V8.  This is only a slightly smaller vehicle than the Armada but it is smaller.  Big benefit from the big towing capability (7,000lbs) of the V8.  Poor mpg in concert with the big umph, expect about 15 mpg.  Offered from '08- '12.  The standard engine was a 4.0L V6 which is rated for 6,000lbs but it is going to wheez to try to do that much.  

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/short-lived-v8-powered-nissan-pathfinder-used-tow-rig-bargain-281474979940072 

Random video showing Armada beside Pathfinder

 

Agreed, in your price range, the Lexus GX will allow her to ride in style with all the other cool kids.  For me, I went 10% of your budget and went with an old Mitsubishi Montero Limited 

I rented a 5.6 Armada before they got the QX56 / 80 body.  To say I was impressed with the performance would be an understatement.  However, I also rented a 5.6 Nissan truck that was an ‘18.  395? hp.  A good bit higher number than what the ‘14 Armada was rated IIRC.  I was disappointed in the truck.  It had the power but only way over on the far right-hand side of the tach.  Seemed much peakier than the Armada.  Gearing perhaps?  

The gx470 (2003-2009) is a much better truck than the gx460 (2010 up). The 460 is catering to the soccer mom crowd. I'd buy the nicest 470 I could find. I've owned 7 of them over the years. 

Land cruiser drives much smaller than its size.   Truly do it all.  Gx a worthy option as well.  I think you are going down the right thought path.  

Steve_Jones said:

The gx470 (2003-2009) is a much better truck than the gx460 (2010 up). The 460 is catering to the soccer mom crowd. I'd buy the nicest 470 I could find. I've owned 7 of them over the years. 

What are the things to look out for on the 470? 

What do you think they got wrong on the 460?

I have no idea, really just want to consider and research all the options, potential issues, etc

If you are willing to go with a CUV/SUV, I have to say that Mom's Acadia (Chevy Traverse) is actually changing my mind about GM.  She has had a string of CUV/SUVs from GM that were questionable:  91 S-blazer, 94 S-blazer, 06 Trailblazer, 09 Caddy SRX.  When she got this 2018 Acadia I thought, oh boy, here we go again.  I was wrong.

Tow capacity of 5500, more power than you need, luxury that puts an X5 to shame, and really impressive interior fit and finish.  Color me impressed.  I towed my boat with it a few weeks ago (3500 lbs) and I loved it.

Taco is the sweet one.  In your price range, you can pretty much count on twice the miles compared to a Colorado or other compact pickup which chaps my butt a little.  Yeah, they're a better truck, but not THAT much better.  If I were buying new, definitely Taco to keep more money in my wallet when I sell it, but it's hard being on the other end and buying that used Toyota.

Colorado doesn't win any beauty or performance contests, but it is a good, solid, boring truck.

Not that they're likely in your price range yet, but read all you can about the new Ranger before putting down your money.  Every truck magazine I picked up last year did a comparison test with Colorado, Taco, Gladiator, Ranger, Dakota, Frontier, etc.  In every one, the Ranger took last place.  They hated them.  In a surprising twist, a decade-old Colorado design actually beat the Taco in some of the magazines to take top spot.

If you're willing to do SUV/CUV, I would look to FJ, Acadia/Traverse, or 4-runner.  In trucks, I think it's pretty much a rusty-framed Taco or Colorado if you believe the magazine guys.

Just be careful what generation of any of them you pick.  Anyone else notice that the latest gen Colorado looks bigger than a GMT800?  And a new 1/2 ton truck looks as big as a 1-ton GMT800?  Geez trucks are getting big.  I just don't want the other driver to slap you silly when you bring home a "compact" pickup that is bigger than a full size from 10 years ago.

The current generation of Colorado/Canyon fall in your price range in 4wd, crew cab layout. Towing capacity is 7000ish and it tows nicely. I have towed my open deck trailer with a Miata on it with ease. On a daily driver basis around home mine shows 22-24 mpg, which pretty much matches my R53 MINI and the truck does it on regular gas. My only complaint is the extra firm seating and that's largely a personal preference.

Damn those GX hold their value like crazy.  Not sure I'd want to dump $25k on a 10 year old car with >100k miles.

I'm no Chrysler fan, but you can get into a GC like 7 years newer with <1/3 the mileage for the same money.  I have driven a few of these and I don't hate them.  Have no idea how reliable they are.

ProDarwin said:

Damn those GX hold their value like crazy.  Not sure I'd want to dump $25k on a 10 year old car with >100k miles.

I'm no Chrysler fan, but you can get into a GC like 7 years newer with <1/3 the mileage for the same money.  I have driven a few of these and I don't hate them.  Have no idea how reliable they are.

Yeah. Because at that amount of mileage I'm imagining shortly down the line is going to be tie rods, ball joints, maybe a failed AC compressor or alternator, just the normal stuff when you have something in the 110-140k mile range. 

I know Toyota/Lexus is a solid, reliable product.........but the used values are just. Even my girlfriend was like, "That seems like a lot of money for a car with that many miles on it."

z31maniac said:

 

I know Toyota/Lexus is a solid, reliable product.........but the used values are just. Even my girlfriend was like, "That seems like a lot of money for a car with that many miles on it."

yeah...   Good vehicles, but I don't think the value proposition is there anymore.  The extra you pay easily offsets the "extra" in repairs you would pay vs. a normal vehicle and while you may make some up back on the resale value..  I usually sell cars when they are ussssed up.  So maybe the extra resale is worth a $1K to me.. which I'd assume if I just invested the difference in purchase price in a vanguard index fund I'd make it up even accounting for repairs..

Here's my thoughts..

So you buy a toyota for $20K and a Ford for $16k..  Invest the 4k in an index fund(histroical average return is 10%)..  I keep my cars on average for 8 years..   not counting fuel(assume the same) and wear items replaced based on mileage (brakes/tires/oil).. So.. we budget $700/year for maint for the Ford and $300/year for the Toyota..

after 8 years.. Lets say the ford is worth $4K and the Toyota is worth $8k

Ford maint was $5600K

Toyota was $2400K

$4K invested at 10% interested compounded montly after 8 years is roughly $8500

So total costs (not adjusting for inflation)

Purchase price + Maint - Resale - Invested = Cost

toyota

20000 + 2400 - 8000 - 0 Investement = 14400

Ford

16000 + 5600 - 4000 - 8500 = 9100

Just a simple model with simple inputs but a few assumptions..  Ford is cheaper by $5k over the long run..   if you chose not to invest the difference.. probably going to work out for the toyota.. but the value is about the same price difference int he beginning..  obviously situations vary  etc etc..    If you can find a car with nearly the same relaibility for markedly difference in price.. then it makes it better.  Tacoma vs. Frontier for example.  You can compare a $25K truck against a $15K one. 

GX460 has timing chains in the 4.6 as opposed to the belts found on the 470 and 4.7.  The 4.7 is the same one in the LandCruiser, and Tundra.  
 

We have a 2011 GX460, I really really like it. It is super comfortable, quiet, has good power, towed a Uhaul trailer with a 05 Mustang GT like a champ. It is heavy but feels solid.  The barn door rear takes some getting used too, but the rear window can be opened separately. 
 

Sadly, ours will be for sale shortly, not for anything related to the vehicle but because, thanks to Covid, my wife isn't going back to work. We actually bought it thinking it would be our forever family hauler and we were planning to use it as our cross country road trip to the national parks. 
 

I can't say anything bad about the GX460 and I have been very impressed with it. 

z31maniac said:

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:

Do you have the travel trailer or will that be a purchase as well? If it's a purchase, consider pop-up trailers. We towed one for years with a 2nd gen explorer and it did great. Something like a Pilot with a popup camper behind it would be easy on the highway and plenty of fun. The previously mentioned v8 470 or 4Runner would be good too. Spendy, yes, but damn nice.

I have a full size 4dr truck that's kind of become our go-to because it's so comfy. Honestly, if you want midsize and swiss army knife capability, stick with an SUV unless you REALLY need an open bed for something. Even a 4dr midsize pickup just isn't enough usable dry space without a cap on the back, and then what's the point. The full size makes up the difference because the cab is so big.

 

 

It will be a future purchase as well. We are basically in the research faze of all this so we can determine priorities, budgets, etc. 

To give you an idea of the size of travel trailers we are looking at, this is one that would serve our needs well. 

https://cheyennecampingcenter.com/inventory/2021-forest-river-cherokee-wolf-pup-14cc-travel-trailer-268

Thats about what I'd want too - and that's a damn good price. Bear in mind that although the weight of that is borderline for a lot of midsize SUVs, the frontal area is most likely going to push it into no-go territory. A lot of manufacturers specify weights AND frontal area limits for towing due to the increased load from wind resistance. I know in our V8 explorer's manual there was a chart. That's the big advantage of a pop up, they have much lower wind resistance forward and to cross winds. The COG is lower and they tow a lot better than the same size full-height trailer. Even with our old one that was manual top I could still have it set up in about the same time as our friends with a full height travel trailer.  

All said, I'd want at least 5k capacity to tow a 3900lb (dry) camper, preferably 7k.  By the time you add belongings, food, supplies, water, etc to the frontal area, it's going to tow a lot heavier-feeling than the dry weight suggests.