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amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter)
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/22/25 1:48 p.m.

2000 Ford F250 4x4 - god this thing sucked to drive. Ox cart suspension, E36 M3ty ford steering box. 
 

1st gen Jeep Grand Cherokee - terrible UX, steering was meh, mediocre power, terrible mpg

 

Whatever version of the Honda Accord v6 my parents had. Throttle mapping was touchy, wheel spin, shock valving was uncomfortable.

 

2nd generation Toyota Camry - terrible handling, terrible steering, mediocre brakes 

 

Renault LeCar

 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/22/25 4:42 p.m.

Our 1971 D100 was pretty terrible, with solid axles and leaf springs and drum brakes at both ends.

OTOH, I was 16 so the freedom outweighed the loathing.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
3/22/25 5:38 p.m.

Back in 2016 when I wrecked my BRZ, my rental was a 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage with a CVT. This was right before my new job and my apartment was ready in OKC. So I was commuting on the turnpike from Tulsa to OKC and back for a few weeks, then had it for a few weeks in OKC. 

I absolutely loathed that an abomination of a vehicle. 

I wish I could have set it on fire instead of turning it back in.

neverdone
neverdone Reader
3/22/25 9:35 p.m.

89ish Nissan Pulsars... the equivalent of a Pinto

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/22/25 9:44 p.m.

In reply to neverdone :

I loved those cars..

Actually, I loved the B12 Sentra that I owned, although it had the GA16i engine rather than the E15 or whatever that the earlier cars had.  It had no heat in the winter unless you blocked off most of the radiator and it was bad to shred the governor drive gear in the transmission, but it was otherwise reliable and handled well enough for the 155-width tires. 

And it got 40-42mpg, which was nice in 2007.

It rusted horribly, don't get me wrong, but I also sold it for more than I paid for it, including the tires, brakes, and front end work that I did to it in 30k miles of ownership.

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
3/22/25 10:06 p.m.
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:

2000 Ford F250 4x4 - god this thing sucked to drive. Ox cart suspension, E36 M3ty ford steering box. 
 

1st gen Jeep Grand Cherokee - terrible UX, steering was meh, mediocre power, terrible mpg

 

Whatever version of the Honda Accord v6 my parents had. Throttle mapping was touchy, wheel spin, shock valving was uncomfortable.

 

2nd generation Toyota Camry - terrible handling, terrible steering, mediocre brakes 

 

Renault LeCar

Interesting observations. We had a '91 Camry wagon in LE V6 configuration, and it was lovely. Not a sports car, but an entirely competent chassis for a family truckster.

This was replaced by a first-gen (ZJ) Grand Cherokee, a '95 Laredo with the 5.2 Magnum. Even less of a sports car, but still entirely acceptable for a solid-axle wagon that would do anything we asked of it in any weather we dared to venture out in. I never thought it needed more power. It pulled down nearly 20 MPG under ideal conditions.

As happy as we are with the 5, I still get the feels when I see a nice example of either of the above.

P3PPY
P3PPY GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/22/25 11:46 p.m.

1992 Dodge Dynasty. Shifting was slow and annoying, visibility was bad - even with pre 9/11 styling - but worst were the seatbelts that NEVER STOPPED TIGHTENING. I hated it so much that it kind of took the sheen off of Vipers for me since they were made by the same company.

I was truly kind of relieved when it was stolen and bummed when it was recovered with zero damage. I couldn't justify getting rid of it so it was nice when the trans died. 

mfennell
mfennell HalfDork
3/23/25 8:27 a.m.
Byrneon27 said:

This bonding with Vipers is hard, bonding with other people's Vipers is really hard because .0001% over bond is backwards in (best case) the opposing lane trying to figure out what the hell happened. It's a truck until it becomes a world class sports car, it's a world class sports car until it becomes a thrill ride, immediately after the thrill ride part it's expensive. Add compressed air to make it significantly scarier/worse/better. Add good shocks to make it confusing 

I know someone who crashed a Viper GTS less than 5 miles into ownership.  IIRC, at the time he was still an active Formula Atlantic racer!    He mis-shifted on a crowned road going too fast and the ass-end of the car slewed into the scenery.

I made t-shirts commemorating the event.  :)

rslifkin
rslifkin PowerDork
3/23/25 10:09 a.m.
DarkMonohue said:
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:

2000 Ford F250 4x4 - god this thing sucked to drive. Ox cart suspension, E36 M3ty ford steering box. 
 

1st gen Jeep Grand Cherokee - terrible UX, steering was meh, mediocre power, terrible mpg

 

Whatever version of the Honda Accord v6 my parents had. Throttle mapping was touchy, wheel spin, shock valving was uncomfortable.

 

2nd generation Toyota Camry - terrible handling, terrible steering, mediocre brakes 

 

Renault LeCar

Interesting observations. We had a '91 Camry wagon in LE V6 configuration, and it was lovely. Not a sports car, but an entirely competent chassis for a family truckster.

This was replaced by a first-gen (ZJ) Grand Cherokee, a '95 Laredo with the 5.2 Magnum. Even less of a sports car, but still entirely acceptable for a solid-axle wagon that would do anything we asked of it in any weather we dared to venture out in. I never thought it needed more power. It pulled down nearly 20 MPG under ideal conditions.

As happy as we are with the 5, I still get the feels when I see a nice example of either of the above.

I agree with not understanding the hate for the ZJ Grand Cherokee.  Not that I drive it much these days, but I've owned mine for 15 years and put ~150k on it in that time.  The steering isn't great out of the box, but it's not terrible, and certainly not by solid front axle standards.  The 4.0 powered ones are kinda underpowered (particularly by modern standards), but any of the V8 ones have at least reasonable grunt by 90s standards and are still not annoyingly slow in the modern world.  Fuel economy is solidly not-great, but looking at the era it's from and what it is, it's no worse than I'd expect it to be.  I've always found the driving position in it comfortable (even for 8+ hours) and controls for everything are generally reachable and pleasant enough to use.  

In general, the first time I got in the driver's seat of one the general impression was that it's one of the last vehicles made that feels like an old school American car in some of the good ways.  It has a few little touches that point back to that era that seem to have disappeared from newer cars.  Stuff like the little wings on the ignition to give you a better surface to grab and turn the key, headlight switch on the dash to reduce stalk clutter (the ZJ only has 1 stalk).  Although BMW also does the dash mount headlight switch, so it's not just an American car thing. 

docwyte
docwyte UltimaDork
3/23/25 10:35 a.m.

My high school car, which was my grandmas old 1975 Mercury Monarch.  6 cylinder, didn't even have power brakes.  No redeeming qualities

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