What was the First USA built production car with a 5 speed trans ?

dbgrubbs said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I stand corrected, it's the 1976 GM compact car lineup with the Borg-Warner T-50 manual transmission.

I had a 1976 Vega GT with the T-50 dogleg 5 speed. Bought the car only because of the dogleg (no reverse lockout). Ended up putting a Buick V6 in front of it.

Hold the phone.  Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.  Dogleg means 1st is down and to the left, essentially an extra gear mounted on the low end of a US-traditional 4-speed.  There is nothing preventing a dogleg trans from having a reverse lockout.

AFAIK only ZF and Porsche (the eluside 1980 924) made dogleg 5-speeds.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Datsun 200sx.  They had a buzzer to alert you that you were in reverse, for those moments you forget about it.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I'm not familiar with a ZF dogleg but Getrag made one that BMW and Mercedes used.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dbgrubbs said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I stand corrected, it's the 1976 GM compact car lineup with the Borg-Warner T-50 manual transmission.

I had a 1976 Vega GT with the T-50 dogleg 5 speed. Bought the car only because of the dogleg (no reverse lockout). Ended up putting a Buick V6 in front of it.

Hold the phone.  Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.  Dogleg means 1st is down and to the left, essentially an extra gear mounted on the low end of a US-traditional 4-speed.  There is nothing preventing a dogleg trans from having a reverse lockout.

 

AFAIK only ZF and Porsche (the eluside 1980 924) made dogleg 5-speeds.

Porsche "901" gearboxes that were in 911 / 912  from 1965 until 1973 ( I think ) but also 904 , 906 and 914 , all had the dogleg first gear....

915 boxes had the H pattern with 5th up and to the right.....

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

During WW2 they made a giant aluminum DOHC tank engine.  

Bingo.  The GAA engine, which was something like 1100ci (18 liters, or 18.000cc) of displacement.

 

It was a 60 degree V8.  They originally designed a V12 for aircraft use, but for political reasons all liquid cooled aircraft engine allocation was assigned to GM/Packard/Allison, so Ford hacked 2/3rd of the engine off and marketed it as a tank engine.

Wonder if that one would fit into any passenger car?  Would be great fun to attend a Viper meet in something with that tank engine and be able to say "8 liters? That's kiddy car sized!"

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dbgrubbs said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I stand corrected, it's the 1976 GM compact car lineup with the Borg-Warner T-50 manual transmission.

I had a 1976 Vega GT with the T-50 dogleg 5 speed. Bought the car only because of the dogleg (no reverse lockout). Ended up putting a Buick V6 in front of it.

Hold the phone.  Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.  Dogleg means 1st is down and to the left, essentially an extra gear mounted on the low end of a US-traditional 4-speed.  There is nothing preventing a dogleg trans from having a reverse lockout.

 

AFAIK only ZF and Porsche (the eluside 1980 924) made dogleg 5-speeds.

Sorry but Borg Warner's T-50 5 speed WAS a dogleg. 1st was down to the left and reverse was straight up with NO lockout. If you were not used to it it was real easy to mistake reverse for 2nd gear.

dbgrubbs said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dbgrubbs said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I stand corrected, it's the 1976 GM compact car lineup with the Borg-Warner T-50 manual transmission.

I had a 1976 Vega GT with the T-50 dogleg 5 speed. Bought the car only because of the dogleg (no reverse lockout). Ended up putting a Buick V6 in front of it.

Hold the phone.  Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.  Dogleg means 1st is down and to the left, essentially an extra gear mounted on the low end of a US-traditional 4-speed.  There is nothing preventing a dogleg trans from having a reverse lockout.

 

AFAIK only ZF and Porsche (the eluside 1980 924) made dogleg 5-speeds.

Sorry but Borg Warner's T-50 5 speed WAS a dogleg. 1st was down to the left and reverse was straight up with NO lockout. If you were not used to it it was real easy to mistake reverse for 2nd gear.

You just have to think of reverse as "negative first" gear. You go down from -1 to 1.

b13990 said:

dbgrubbs said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dbgrubbs said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I stand corrected, it's the 1976 GM compact car lineup with the Borg-Warner T-50 manual transmission.

I had a 1976 Vega GT with the T-50 dogleg 5 speed. Bought the car only because of the dogleg (no reverse lockout). Ended up putting a Buick V6 in front of it.

Hold the phone.  Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.  Dogleg means 1st is down and to the left, essentially an extra gear mounted on the low end of a US-traditional 4-speed.  There is nothing preventing a dogleg trans from having a reverse lockout.

 

AFAIK only ZF and Porsche (the eluside 1980 924) made dogleg 5-speeds.

Sorry but Borg Warner's T-50 5 speed WAS a dogleg. 1st was down to the left and reverse was straight up with NO lockout. If you were not used to it it was real easy to mistake reverse for 2nd gear.

You just have to think of reverse as "negative first" gear. You go down from -1 to 1.

You have to either be brave, or very confident in the condition and adjustment of your shift linkage, to downshift to 1st gear in a rod shift VW.  Revese is right next to it and it is easy to blow past the interlock, or have sloppy linkage shoot to the left for you.  Reverse is not synchronized and involves actually moving a gear into position.  Once you do the 2-R shift at speed, the trans will go clank-clank-clank in Reverse forever as you go past the teeth you just chipped/bent.

Saw a friend nearly stand his Golf on its bumper when he did the 2-R shift and let out what would have been a perfectly rev matched downshift had he got the gear he actually wanted.  Oops.

oldopelguy (Forum Supporter) said:

There were 5 speeds in trucks going back to at least the 50s. The New Process 54x series and the Clark V series are at least that old. Pretty sure Spicer and Fuller had 5 speeds back then too.

I don't know what it was out of originally, but I had a Clark 280VO in my Jeep CJ-7 for many years. Very customized to fit, obviously, but it was a great transmission.

It even has a dog-leg first! And what I call the pony-tail overdrive, top right position, above 4th. Did not know that when I first put it in, so I thought it had problems.

Also drove an old International truck with a similar transmission, my first time with a 2 speed axle.

I don't think I have ever driven a car with a 5-speed. Four, 6, and 7, but never five. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ShawnG :

The factory = no stops hence the Hurst design.  Hurst spawned a whole set of cottage industry copies too Pro 5.0, Steeda Tri-Ax, MGW.....  and others.  I always go Hurst whenever I can because its really their design and R&D.  

Definitely no stops.  Not a big deal.... but.... if your drive a 6 speed for a while and go back, be VERY careful.

In reply to llysgennad :

Sounds better than the Spicer 3053a shift pattern from the M35 trucks

buzzboy said:

In reply to llysgennad :

Sounds better than the Spicer 3053a shift pattern from the M35 trucks