SilverFleet wrote: To me, cool VW's like the TDI and GTI/GLI are kinda like high class strippers. They look very appealing, but once you get your hands on one, you are sure to end up in a heap of trouble and realize at the end of the ordeal, it really wasn't worth it.
I hope not. 
kb58 wrote: So after reading this entire thread, are we to conclude that we should just ride bicycles?
Then we would all be reading a worst bike thread.
In reply to SilverFleet:
Well said! That's EXACTLY what those VWs are like!
My dad ragged me about buying a 'new' car so I bought a 'stripper' Vega, 2.3 1 bbl carb 3 speed no A/C. Piece of E36 M3 for all the normal Vega reasons. Lost my azz and was happy to see it go.
Next was my 1992 Jeep Cherokee Sport. That was, hands down, the worst driving vehicle I have ever owned. I realize SUVs are not supposed to handle like sports cars, but this thing was so horrible that it still gives me nightmares. Add to that the absolutely atrocious interior 'quality' and weak brakes, I was SO happy to be done with that pile of crap.
The absolute pinnacle of automotive E36 M3hood that I owned was the 1983 VW GTi. That is the only car I owned which actively tried to kill me at every opportunity, I swear it cackled maniacally when it saw me coming. It ate front wheel bearings like they were made of rock candy, broke the tip off a CV axle in the middle of a VERY busy intersection, randomly blew fuses, spit belts for no reason, would turn on the low oil pressure alarm at random times, but NOTHING was worse than its habit of randomly backfiring. Now this was not just a pop, it would blow the brake booster check valve out of the intake. It would happen maybe once every 6 weeks or so, I did cap/rotor/plug wires/new O2/valve adjustment/timing belt/all new vacuum lines, still happened. I got tired of the booster check valve flying out so I safety wired it in place, it then broke the center plastic disc out of the valve. new valve, safety wired, epoxy on plastic disc. I'm set, right? Uh, no. Now it would blow the freaking CIS injectors out of the intake! I finally safety wired the damn injectors in place, now you'd randomly hear it go 'pook' but at least you could continue to drive the damn thing. The day I discovered that VW had an assembly issue that would cause the differential spider gear to saw a hole through the transmission case and mine was one of them that POS went in the paper.
SilverFleet wrote:m_walker26 wrote: In reply to SilverFleet: -Gauges would zero out at random while driving. Dealer couldn't find the issue. Same issue with 98 Passat. Traced to loose ground wire under intake manifold. Took days to find. And why in hell was it under there?Good to know. It's also good to know that I most likely will never buy another VW product for the rest of my life, no matter how tempting the TDI models and the GTI variants are to me. I almost gave in when I bought the my Mazda, but I maintained self control and ran away. To me, cool VW's like the TDI and GTI/GLI are kinda like high class strippers. They look very appealing, but once you get your hands on one, you are sure to end up in a heap of trouble and realize at the end of the ordeal, it really wasn't worth it.
What about MK3 GTIs with 3.2l VR6 swaps? I am slightly interested in buying one for $6k......
My 2002 WRX had fantastic throttle response. It was cable-driven. My 2009 WRX was AWFUL and had rev-hang issues.
You might be interested to know that as of the 2012 model there is no change, lol. I was told at NASIOC that this was working as designed due to some smog or EPA issue.... don't know which or if it was even true
To me, cool VW's like the TDI and GTI/GLI are kinda like high class strippers. They look very appealing, but once you get your hands on one, you are sure to end up in a heap of trouble and realize at the end of the ordeal, it really wasn't worth it.
oh my god. having done both, this is sooooooooooooooooo true......
kanaric wrote:SilverFleet wrote:What about MK3 GTIs with 3.2l VR6 swaps? I am slightly interested in buying one for $6k......m_walker26 wrote: In reply to SilverFleet: -Gauges would zero out at random while driving. Dealer couldn't find the issue. Same issue with 98 Passat. Traced to loose ground wire under intake manifold. Took days to find. And why in hell was it under there?Good to know. It's also good to know that I most likely will never buy another VW product for the rest of my life, no matter how tempting the TDI models and the GTI variants are to me. I almost gave in when I bought the my Mazda, but I maintained self control and ran away. To me, cool VW's like the TDI and GTI/GLI are kinda like high class strippers. They look very appealing, but once you get your hands on one, you are sure to end up in a heap of trouble and realize at the end of the ordeal, it really wasn't worth it.My 2002 WRX had fantastic throttle response. It was cable-driven. My 2009 WRX was AWFUL and had rev-hang issues.You might be interested to know that as of the 2012 model there is no change, lol. I was told at NASIOC that this was working as designed due to some smog or EPA issue.... don't know which or if it was even true
On the 1st point, let me make it clear that I'm talking about the MKIII cars-present, although I've had friends with MKII 16V cars that have had fits with them as well.
On the rev-hang thing, it has something to do with keeping the cats up to temp so they can fudge the emissions numbers. It's pretty dumb, and super annoying.
In reply to 1988RedT2: my '76 came with 305 slug motor. Trans was set up to give the appearance of performance which meant you had to be on the brakes all the time. It got worse gas mileage than the '73 455 Buick Regal that my parents replaced.
In reply to SilverFleet:
Well said indeed. My brother has an '02 GTi, and it has been nothing but trouble. Looks drop dead sexy, and every part of me wants to think that its got the nuts to back up the looks. But... its such a E36M3-box. And holy hell is it heavy. And parts are expensive. And there's almost no room to work in the engine bay. And it still won't run right despite cubic dollars and lots of effort. I'd have cut my losses long ago.
84 mercury merkur. Unreliable and sporty looking.
crankwalk wrote:SilverFleet wrote: To me, cool VW's like the TDI and GTI/GLI are kinda like high class strippers. They look very appealing, but once you get your hands on one, you are sure to end up in a heap of trouble and realize at the end of the ordeal, it really wasn't worth it.I hope not.
I'd say its hit or miss. My '03 TDi has been stone reliable for over 300k miles and I've done little to it other than scheduled maintenance. That said, I don't know if I'd buy a new one. People here praise the E30, yet mine has been the most unreliable POS I've ever owned. I'm seriously considering replacing it with a MkIV 1.8t figuring there's no way the car could be worse and at least its a devil I know better. You just never know...
Both of the worst cars I ever had were both owned by my girlfriend/fiancee/wife. Coincidentally, they both have small but enthusiastic followings here, which I totally fail to understand.
1) 1974 AMC Hornet Sportabout 6 cyl. Fortunately, it was not a Gucci. It was actually a handy little utility car and looked kinda cute. It drove acceptably, quality was nothing to write home about, but mother of Bob, THE RUST 
By 1982 it had rust holes everywhere , vertical and horizontal surfaces, top and bottom.
2) 1982 Ford Fairmont Futura. I know these things have their fans, but it was truly deeply awful. It was a 6 cylinder that couldn't get out of it's own way no matter how badly you wailed on it... and that was after I finally solved the year-long intermittent fuel starvation problem that rendered it nearly undriveable. The 4s must have been literally dangerous in traffic. The power steering didn't work at low speed and was overboosted at cruising speeds. For as large and boxy as it was it had no interior space or access. My wife is exactly 5 inches shorter than I am, and with the seat in her driving position I physically could not get into the car - I couldn't even reach the adjuster handle to slide it back. And with the seat in my driving position, you physically could not get into the back. It also had all the typical early-Fox suspension "features". Stupid "airbags are coming" stalk-mounted horn button, which was probably the most non-intuitive automotive control ever installed. The crowning glory, it had a cigarette lighter but NO CLOCK . Plus, it was fugly, which is of course subjective.
Luckily her father bought both cars for her, or I would have had to reconsider marrying her.
Ian F wrote:crankwalk wrote:I'd say its hit or miss. My '03 TDi has been stone reliable for over 300k miles and I've done little to it other than scheduled maintenance. That said, I don't know if I'd buy a new one. People here praise the E30, yet mine has been the most unreliable POS I've ever owned. I'm seriously considering replacing it with a MkIV 1.8t figuring there's no way the car could be worse and at least its a devil I know better. You just never know...SilverFleet wrote: To me, cool VW's like the TDI and GTI/GLI are kinda like high class strippers. They look very appealing, but once you get your hands on one, you are sure to end up in a heap of trouble and realize at the end of the ordeal, it really wasn't worth it.I hope not.
A member of the Team External Combustion extended family has a 1996 Passat TDI wagon, a rare unicorn of a car that is a wagon, turbo diesel, and has a manual transmission!
If you went to the Challenge last year, you probably saw it there in the parking lot. That car was purchased new by his dad, and now has well over 230,000 miles on it. Other than general wear and tear, the car has been phenomenal all it's life.
We drove down from MA to the Challenge, drove all around down there in it doing parts runs, food runs, etc... and drove back up without any major issues. The worst mileage we got was about 39mpg, and that's because an intercooler hose popped off at some point. That may have also been his worst mileage ever on a tank. Keep in mind, that mileage was with 3 dudes and all our crap in the car. We were getting almost 700 miles to a tank!!!
I drove it for hundreds of trouble free miles on the trip, and I really liked it. But there is NO WAY I would buy a new one after reading all the horror stories of people dealing with fuel system issues on the newer cars.
My wife's early SL1 when we first started dating. All 85 HP going through a slush box and an interior designed for small people. At 6' with a large frame, up front with the seat all the way back I was still eating knees and I was about 1.5" wider than the seat on each side. Once I had the misfortune of sharing the back seat with 2 others for a few miles, had I not moved to the front for the return trip I was going to walk back.
Combine that with 12-15 years of NY road salt(it is amazing seeing how much a 'plastic' car can rust) and a few years worth of neglected maintenance it made for a truly horrific driving experience.
In reply to Curmudgeon:
Curmudgeon, do you mean that you bought a Vega just so you could have something new?
Buying the cheapest new thing available didn't really work out until the invention of Korea, circa 1990.
the list would be shorter if I picked the best cars I ever owned.
hotrodlarry wrote: the list would be shorter if I picked the best cars I ever owned.
This is what I look for in a car:
I take back my earlier post. I was reminded today, one of my younger sisters has a C230k Sports coupe pile o scheiss. Thing always has something wrong with it. Nothing that would leave you stranded and even with the wear and neglect it feels pretty tanklike, but it always has some issue or light on. No dipstick to check the trans, crappy sounding and performing engine, parts of the interior are flimsy/falling apart.
Everything is a pain to work on. Example; there are 4 support/camber arms on each side of the rear suspension (er, 3 + the tie rod.) In order to get one of the arms out, you remove the nut which leaves the bolt to be stuck between the body of the car and the bracket of the arm. In order to get the bolt out you have to drop the 2 front subframe bolts and loosen the 2 rear subframe bolts, then use a prybar to leverage it down enough to clear the body. Re-install is the same thing in reverse. At least the control arms themselves were easy, but I still have to tell her to order 2 more arms and 2 rear tie rods as well as the knuckle bushing.
Perhaps I just don't get the idiosyncrasies of "German Engineering" but that car is overly complicated for no real reason from where I stand. Not to mention it's very expensive for what it is, about $1k just to do the suspension bushings and shocks, using Pelican/Lemforder, pressing the front bushings myself as well as a couple geniune parts from her dealer hookup and still has to order a few things.
Maybe if it were better looking and more fun to drive those things could be softened, but it doesn't have enough redeeming qualities to warrant how much of a pain in the ass it is.
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