I’ll read & respond later.
For now, I’m in lust. Hot, sweaty, poopie lust.
I didn’t want to take it back to the dealership.
I’ll read & respond later.
For now, I’m in lust. Hot, sweaty, poopie lust.
I didn’t want to take it back to the dealership.
Joe Gearin said:Poopie,
Offer them $30K, or whatever you consider bottom-barrel pricing. They will say no, give them your phone number. Call, or stop back in again in a few weeks. (providing you actually like the car) If they still say no....... come back a couple of weeks later. Each time tell them--- $30K is my number and I'll buy the car today. Wear them down. Every day that car sits on the lot, it's costing them $$$. The more time they wait, the more $$ they waste. If you really want to piss them off, turn their words back upon them...... " Mr Dealer guy, what's it going to take for you to sell this car today?" Play their game.....beat them at it.
You are in the enviable position of not NEEDING the car, you just think you may like it. Use this to your advantage, and you'll drive them to the brink before they finally relent. Also, capture the dealer's tears when they finally break down.......car dealer tears are even more potent than the tears of a gypsy!
You never cease to crack me up. And thanks for the advice. I believe I will likely go this route.
goingnowherefast said:I mean you can literally get a used RS2 for ~27K with like 10K miles. With deals and depreciation like that, I couldn't even begin to think about paying sticker + markup on one.
Where are these mythical literal beasts you speak of?
$32k and zero percent financing.
Geeeez, in a few months it will be 2 years old already. They ought to offer a better deal than $39K....... although I don't think they will. Still have 17s sitting on a few lots here by me too.
poopshovel again said:goingnowherefast said:I mean you can literally get a used RS2 for ~27K with like 10K miles. With deals and depreciation like that, I couldn't even begin to think about paying sticker + markup on one.
Where are these mythical literal beasts you speak of?
Not quite the price and mileage, but close.
I haven't seen any with 10k miles for $27k. But there are decent deals out there on very lightly used ones compared to paying nearly $40k for new at some dealers.
yupididit said:It was in Race mode. One thing I had no problem was the suspension, I dont understand what people were complaining about. Maybe because I dd a rough excursion but the RS was a lot more comfortable than I thought it be.
I liked it but I was expecting it to be a little more fierce than it was. It is an excellent car.
My sentiments exactly.
I was pleasantly surprised that (in my opinion) the “pogo-stick-ride” was waaaaaay overblown.
Seats, handling, and brakes were nothing short of berkeleying phenomenal. Once I got the seat and wheel where I wanted them, the driving position was exactly where I wanted it...which is something I’m rarely satisfied with in any car.
After about ten minutes of spirited driving on a mountain road, I went to put it in “sport” mode, expecting the ride to rattle my teeth out, unaware that the sales guy had already put in Sport before we left the lot.
Power was sufficient, and more linear than I expected, but underwhelming. That said, I hopped out of a car with 200 more horsepower and straight into the RS. Also, I get the sense it’s a Cobb stage 1 kit away from being a perma-grin machine.
It was really weird getting back into the V. Definitely felt more like being at the helm of the Queen Mary than ever before. It’s been WAY too long since I’ve driven a “small” car on the street. I damned near rolled through the stop sign leaving the dealership having gotten used to the RS stopping on a dime.
I’m smitten...Don’t tell the dealer.
The Sport, Race or Drift mode doesn't change the suspension stiffness, just drivetrain parameters.
There's a button on the end of the turn signal stalk to stiffen the suspension.
Its miserable, don't do it, it nearly bounced me off the track when I used it at a track day.
I wouldn't do Cobb, I'd go Mountune/Ford and keep your warranty.
poopshovel again said:Joe Gearin said:Poopie,
Offer them $30K, or whatever you consider bottom-barrel pricing. They will say no, give them your phone number. Call, or stop back in again in a few weeks. (providing you actually like the car) If they still say no....... come back a couple of weeks later. Each time tell them--- $30K is my number and I'll buy the car today. Wear them down. Every day that car sits on the lot, it's costing them $$$. The more time they wait, the more $$ they waste. If you really want to piss them off, turn their words back upon them...... " Mr Dealer guy, what's it going to take for you to sell this car today?" Play their game.....beat them at it.
You are in the enviable position of not NEEDING the car, you just think you may like it. Use this to your advantage, and you'll drive them to the brink before they finally relent. Also, capture the dealer's tears when they finally break down.......car dealer tears are even more potent than the tears of a gypsy!
You never cease to crack me up. And thanks for the advice. I believe I will likely go this route.
Come to the Mitty buddy! I'll crack you up all weekend----- and whiskey....don't forget the whiskey!
Driven5 said:Suprf1y said:They set their price and don't care if the car sits for two years they rarely move on their original number.
That has not been my experience, neither as a buyer nor in my (brief) stint at a dealership. My best new purchase was a 2005 Mazdaspeed Miata GT. Stickered at $27k, purchased late March (end of quarter) 2006 for $18.5k. My worst new sale was a Yellow 2008 911 C4 Cabriolet in NE Wisconsin in the fall of 2009 for around $10k below invoice, which meant something like $20k below sticker.
There is no singular price set in stone on any given car. There is yesterday's price, today's price, and tomorrow's price.. The price on any given day is determined by the needs of that dealership on that day, and while counter intuitive to the casual observer, that occasionally means taking a loss on one or even a few.
I agree with Driven5. Our dealership has unloaded cars for some serious discounts. For example, we got a CTS-V Wagon that sat around for almost 2 years with no buyers and they knocked over $15K off of it just to get rid of it. Never ordered another CTS-V again. Our 2014 Chevrolet SS (the sedan) also sat for almost two years, went for $10k under sticker. GM dumped a bunch of C7 Corvettes on us one year for reasons unknown and after sitting on the lot for 2 years, they sold for $54k (I think one of them went even lower), despite a sticker of over $72K
Stefan said:The Sport, Race or Drift mode doesn't change the suspension stiffness, just drivetrain parameters.
There's a button on the end of the turn signal stalk to stiffen the suspension.
Its miserable, don't do it, it nearly bounced me off the track when I used it at a track day.
I wouldn't do Cobb, I'd go Mountune/Ford and keep your warranty.
Oh damn. Good to know!
I thought Mountune’s cure for “more cowbell” was an intake & Cobb Accessport(?)
In reply to Joe Gearin :
10-4!!! We can rag out the V before I trade it in!
In reply to poopshovel again :
Nope. There’s a tune from Ford/Mountune. Certain dealer’s can install it and there’s a warranty, etc.
Stefan said:I wouldn't do Cobb, I'd go Mountune/Ford and keep your warranty.
Sorry to be that guy, but in the name of absolute clarity, I believe the Mountune/Ford Performance tunes eliminate your factory warranty, and then replace it with a "Ford Performance" warranty that covers it for a shorter time frame, and may/may not be less comprehensive. Obviously, that's still better than no warranty, but it's an important distinction to make before somebody spends money thinking that their original factory warranty still applies. Technically, "Comes with a warranty" =/= "keeps your warranty".
Right, I changed how I said that later on. I should edit that to make it more clear.
Note: the Ford tune is CARB legal and locked, so its not the same as a COBB where you aren't necessarily emissions legal and there isn't a warranty of any kind.
Needless to say, but fuel octane is very critical on these tunes, so even though the pump may be labeled "x" octane, there's not a guarantee. So caveat emptor, etc.
Personally, for the street, its got more than enough power to get me into trouble and I'm not going to do anything until the warranty is up. The only things I've changed is I've added a few "RS" decals to make it "mine" and I've ordered a euro cup holder/center console because the stock one is slightly useless. Once I get a phone mount that I like, it will be pretty much the way I want it until the warranty expires.
The talk of RS tunes reminds me of a funny story that a friend of mine, whom we'll call Bill, told me. He owns an RS and actually started one of the FoRS forums out there, and he travels around meeting up with other FoRS owners and hangs out with them for a weekend. So he goes up to Massachusetts and is hanging out with this guy and the guy happens to mention that he had his car custom-tuned by a local shop and that that's the only work done to it and it pulls like a freight train. So part of Bill's little trips is that he uses it to research mods, see what people have done and like/dislike on their cars before he does anything to his.
So their time hanging out is wrapping up and Bill asks if the guy would mind making a couple of side-by-side pulls so he can see what this guy's tune did for the car, because if it's as good as he says for the price he quoted he might be interested. NOTE: I do not condone street-racing but it's important to this story. So they get out on the highway and go from a roll in 2nd gear (Bill had better tires, other guy had stock tires, wanted to eliminate that variable) and in 2nd gear the guy is ever-so slightly pulling on him. Hit third and the guy is still pulling ahead but even less so. Fourth gear and they are pulling the same. Fifth gear and Bill's bone-stock car starts freight-training him bad. They do it a few more times and every time the tuned car barely pulls ahead in 2nd and 3rd and then Bill goes right around him.
After they pull over the guy with the tuned RS is pissed off and mad that the shop ripped him off and is going back there to get the car set back to stock. Needless to say, Bill did not end up going to that shop to get his car tuned either.
In reply to NickD :
That reminds me of a couple of our customers who thought their cars pulled really well, but we could tell from experience with their particular car that something wasn't right.
I'm not claiming to be a master tuner by any degree, but it's amazing how much better a car can drive just from getting the MAF transfer table correct, both in drivability and performance. Or verifying and correcting fuel pressure. Etc. Or the corollary, it's amazing how crappy a car can drive yet still impress its owner if there's a couple simple things that are out of whack.
In reply to Knurled. :
I also think that some of it is the placebo effect. You take the car in, drop it off at the shop to have a custom tune done, pick it up a day or so later and in your mind "Hey, its tuned, this thing has to run strong now" and without back to back verification, it's definitely faster in your mind
In reply to NickD :
The one that REALLY sticks in my mind was an LS1 Camaro that had half a Summit catalog under the hood (manifold, headers, heads, cam, and that's just the visible stuff) and it felt slower than my RX-7. He thought it was great as-is, and was SHOCKED when he got it back. Stuff like that makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
I'm curious if these tunes are usually done on a dyno? My only experience with this sort of thing is through MINI's and a local tuning shop in Philly. At some point I'll have a tune done on my '06 MCS, but they always do a baseline pull first so you at least have a decent idea of what you're paying for. The factory tune of the R53 can vary a lot for some reason.
In reply to Ian F :
From what it sounds like, the Mountune stype tunes are not vehicle specific tune, but a generic reflash that does things like up boost targets and desired torque.
From what NickD was saying, it SOUNDS like whatever "tune" the shop did was something that mucked with more timing or less fuel, which made the engine run a little stronger at first, and then it ran hotter, so it started going into parts of the tune that preserve the engine at the expense of power. OE level computers are CRAZY comprehensive as far as mapping is concerned. It's not like the old days where they had to leave the factory fairly conservative in order to account for the doofus who tows up a mountain in August with low coolant. They account for that sort of stuff now in some of the hundreds/thousands of maps in the PCM, so there isn't very much left on the table as far as optimal-conditions power is concerned.
This, incidentally, is why turbo BMWs seem to "punch above their weight". Their rated power is kind of a worst case scenario. I have heard of certain engines making 100hp over rating on a dyno with the factory tune. So, VERY dependent on air temps, coolant temps, etc.
In reply to Knurled. :
Bi-turbo Mercedes are the same as those turbo bmw's.
In reply to Knurled. :
Alfadriver has mentioned that they have to tune the cars and trucks to run on 87 octane fuel, even though the factory states they should only have 91 or better fuel in them.
So yeah, they have to protect the owners from themselves :)
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