Two things to be considered...
1. What sub-class will encouraged more cars to come out and play? I see goal #1 of these classes should be to encourage participation. Aristocrat and Pickup truck did this well.
2. What makes for good content? Is 20 sec drag times in an All Beige 4cyl Camry Class on 600tw really desirable or does it dull the event?
If enough people participate, even a slow class would be quite entertaining and the competition could be really close.
*I'm not advocating for All Beige Camry though
Whether a class generates good content or not really depends on whether anyone builds something crazy for it- a bunch of stock-ish malaise era barges, or econoboxes, or crown vics would be boring, but if a few crazily swapped or creatively prepared versions of any of those cars show up it suddenly becomes interesting. The mini van class would have been a lot less exciting without the slammed stormtrooper thing, for example.
In reply to John Welsh :
Thanks John. Over here at "Beige Camry Motorsports" magazine we were set to have a "600 Treadwear Drags" challenge in 2018. But now...we're not so sure.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:Whether a class generates good content or not really depends on whether anyone builds something crazy for it- a bunch of stock-ish malaise era barges, or econoboxes, or crown vics would be boring, but if a few crazily swapped or creatively prepared versions of any of those cars show up it suddenly becomes interesting. The mini van class would have been a lot less exciting without the slammed stormtrooper thing, for example.
You make a good point, but one should remember that for all of the examples you've brough up- killer versions have shown up. An Econobox won the challenge once (Honda Civic), one malise car has done under 11 seconds (ok, so the Nova is a little early in the era)...
Lets put it a different way- no way in heck that trucks in any normal form should be good competition. And that turned out really well. So there's no real fear to expect mostly stock versions of cars.
Its been a while since I've looked through full results, but in the past haven't many bolt-on econoboxes placed in the top 1/3rd?
For something I haven't seen pitched yet, what about diesel engines as a sub-class?
The answer to the question is the question has not been answered.
Unfortunately, this may have been a mistake. The sub classes have been entirely designed and advocated by competitors, not staff. We should have left the town hall meeting with a consensus.
Since we have not answered that question, it now becomes a staff decision. We can debate it online, but there won't be a consensus until the staff issues an announcement.
We goofed.
Combine Swedish AND wagon, done!
If we do Swedish wagons I am all set (aside from making it fast). But with a $275 purchase price I should have some room in the budget for that.
the P U class was left at 'you know one when you see one'. Go Ahead say that about Wagons. I have an extra Radio Flyer.
I didn't want to yell it out at the meeting because I felt that my voice isn't as strong having never brought a car to the challenge, but I want to throw Italian cars into the ring. They have been horribly underrepresented in recent years. There are tons of them mouldering in back yards all over the country, not running, and they make for good editorial content. Alfas, Fiats, Maseratis, and probably some weird ones. Someone asked if a TC by Maserati would count, I theorized that it would if it kept the motor. A motor swap means it's just an uglier LeBaron. If someone finds a Fiero with a Ferrari kit, I'd allow it, it's as valid as the "trucks" this year.
So we have available cars, for cheap, and interesting build possibilities.
Italian cars.
In reply to mazdeuce :
Ooooh, and if it goes well we can step it up to French cars the year after so things will get really nuts 
I vote wagons this year, and propose we get this done. Sub class has nothing to do with what the magazine wants, it's all about the competitors. I think the final gavel should be dropped by John Welsh and pimpm3.
In reply to mazdeuce :
We want to see the sub-class cars actually participate in the challenge 
Italian... would Yugos count? 
The sub class discussion around the hot tub after the Concourse on Saturday was good. We should make that an annual event with the decision being made there.
My $.02 on classes.
WAGONS: I like the idea of wagons with the caveat that it had to be a true 4 door, 4 seater with a full roofline when it came from the factory. I also think it should still resemble a wagon. If you want to go topless in your 4 door you can always do the chop top challenge.
Sub 1.5L cars: This would bring a bunch of cool, weird cars out of the woodwork. CRX's, Fiats, Yaris (ok, not so cool), and possibly a 1.3L piston Mazda GLC if it hasn't rusted into oblivion. Fuioko could bring his 1.3L Miata. Rotaries would not be allowed as all racing groups classify their displacement as at least 1.75x their "listed" displacement.
General Tire class: This was discussed as a way to allow non top contender's to use their tire $$ for something that they could continue to use after the event rather than the 4 A7s sticking together in a stack in the corner. Also, it shows our sponsors (did you see how many were on this years shirt compared to the past?) that we recognize them and want to support them. We pick we one of their G-Max AS-05, AS-03 or AltiMAX RT43 lines with the most size options and let this be the 4 non-budget tires. In this class you would have to run this tire for both the autocross and drags.
As an outsider, since I haven’t been to the challenge, my opinion probably doesn’t have much influence.
Regardless, here are my thoughts:
Previous sub classes (aristocrat, minivan, pickup) have been vehicles that don’t get much love from this group for sporting intentions. They may be appreciated for their comfort, people moving, or towing, but typically not competitive motor sports.
This opens the door for creativity, and some unique builds that would not normally be at the challenge.
I would expect the next sub class to take a similar approach. And while wagons are cool, many share enough of their DNA with more performance oriented vehicles that they may not produce the same ingenuity that the previous classes required.
I would think the next sub class should also be a “non-sporting” vehicle class to make it a class that will be driven by creativity and not a formulaic approach.
To that end I would propose an electric class, that could be a class that is EV and hybrid.
It would be cool to see what this group could squeeze out of a Prius, or making a mid-engined hybrid Miata, or dual drivetrain vehicle.
This opens the door for class specific competitions to ensure the EV portion is not just “along for the ride”. This could be accomplished by combining an all electric time for autocross or 1/4 mile with the gas/electric times.
El Caminos are built on full sized wagon chassis (and still have the rear seat footwell).
Just saying.... ;-)
In reply to jstand :
I'd actually argue that because you've never been a Challenge competitor, your opinions on the special class is MORE valuable - you're a reader/viewer, and thus part of GRM's target audience for this event. If the special class doesn't interest you, then ultimately it doesn't contribute to the primary goal of the event - to generate editorial content the readers want.
In reply to mazdeuce :
You know those TC's mostly came with Chrysler SOHC 2.2's or Mitsubishi SOHC 3.0L V6's, right? Only about 500 total were made with the Maserati DOHC head for the 2.2L. It really was intended to come out prior to the LeBaron and is essentially the same underneath.
Jus' Sayin'
How about a World Car War? Cars like the Catera and Contour or 300 Magnum that were really rebadged corporate world cars?
Really my vote is Axis vs Allies? American and British cars versus German and Asian cars with French and Italians playing both sides and everyone giving their cash to the Swedes who eventually are the real winners.
SVreX said:Italian... would Yugos count?
I actually like the potential ambiguitity in "Italian". We do love to argue after all. 
SVreX said:El Caminos are built on full sized wagon chassis (and still have the rear seat footwell).
Just saying.... ;-)
No, No they are not. They are built on Chevelle frames that ALSO was in the form of a Wagon, not like that matters, there were also Full size wagons made on Impala/caprice/ Roadmaster frames.
In reply to mazdeuce :
I do Love Pasta
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