I agree that the fun is in the controversy of the definition. Was the storm trooper actually a minivan, or was it just a Pontiac G6 with a hefty disguise? Can a Q'ute45 really count as a truck? Is a Q45 really that aristocratic? Who cares? It's the unofficial $2018 Sub Class!
Where exactly is the fine line between hatchback and wagon? Do shooting brakes apply? Does the world really need to see a homemade P71 Estate? Tune in next year to find out!
You wagon guys are going to have to help me put a wagon roof back on the Saab.
Robbie said:You wagon guys are going to have to help me put a wagon roof back on the Saab.
And we all win if that happens!
Find a small pickup bed topper, cut it down to size. Then you retain truck functionality while gaining admission to a new sub-class!
So... who's bringing a mid engined wagon? 
chandler said:How about a sub subclass....
This isn't Grassroots DIVE! DIVE! DIVE! Sports...
EV cars for challenge budget. I'd turn it into a dd instead lmao
In reply to yupididit :
I took a quick look before posting that, and there were several Prii for sub-challenge money that could be donors.
In reply to Robbie :
I say that even if you cut the roof off a wagon, it's still a wagon!
A wagon class would definitely get me to build a car. I would just have to decide whether to build the Volvo or Opel.
In reply to SVreX :
Paul, you find me a 59 or 60 el camino for under Challenge money and I'll be in Heaven. not like I could buy it but it's kinda a bucket list car so I didn't think of seeing one chopped up. If someone does .....I Kill You (them)
In reply to GTXVette :
I believe Paul has or had one choose to Challenge money.
A wagon without a roof is a pick-up or how ever an El Camino gets classed., UTE? 2 0r 4 doors isn't an issue as much as a Long roof is.
Just sayin'
Wagon has me tempted to do a build as well. I need to see if I can get some friends on board with this.
I have or can get enough Opel Kadetts to field a 10-car sub class of just them. I'll gladly donate for the cause.
What about an orphan/grey market class? Isuzu, Opel, NSU, SAAB, Vauxhall, Saturn (I think we would have to exclude brand engineered ones) and such. I could field a dozen of those out of my back yard.
I built a non pickup pickup and I'd have to say I would have rather seen a pickup win the class. Although it was creative interpretation of the rules and required destroying a car in the process I'd rather see something that started life as a wagon be a wagon and win the wagon class.
Yes, I already own a wagon that is going to be prepared for the event. I may not finish in time because my goals are high and new skills are required.
Sometimes I wish we would just ban miatas except for the fact that they give a solid baseline for autocross performance so that most readers can relate.
A 200tw driven to the event class: This would kind of go back to the roots of very cheap racing. This may also get the level of participation up of autocrossers. Yes, people from Florida will still have a huge advantage. Currently to be a top competitor it takes using Hoosiers or some other form of slick to be near the top which generally isn't a cheap habit to keep up for "cheap" racing.
Still not sure how to get more drag racers involved. I think I was 7th overall in drags with a 13.9 and there weren't many more under a 15. Our disparity in drag racing from top to bottom is currently huge.
Robbie said:You wagon guys are going to have to help me put a wagon roof back on the Saab.
Find some rusted out Saab 96 or 99 wagon and graft it onto the back?
I'll chime in to say that I think wagon definition should require a "near vertical" rear hatch, and two rows of seating...
I see no problem with shootingbrakes being a separate concurrent class, since that happened with the aristocrats entries.
As to drags, give me a tenth of a second for every hundred miles I drive the car to the event.
I can't build a 10 sec car, and knowing how for off the front I will be sucks all the fun out for me, especially when it's on the other end of 25+ hours and 1600+ miles of driving. But even up the playing field for those who have to make the decisions between slower and more reliable or faster but more fragile and it's a strategy to be further away. What would it cost, 1.6 seconds on my time slip in exchange for bringing a car sorted and built well enough that I could drive it there? Obviously I have never been, but it seems in the spirit of the event.
Andy Neuman said:A 200tw driven to the event class: This would kind of go back to the roots of very cheap racing. This may also get the level of participation up of autocrossers. Yes, people from Florida will still have a huge advantage. Currently to be a top competitor it takes using Hoosiers or some other form of slick to be near the top which generally isn't a cheap habit to keep up for "cheap" racing.
I love this idea. I am already a big proponent of a 'spec tire' class (and since General Tire supports the crap out of our event perhaps we could support them back), but if you combine a spec tire class with a 'has to be driven to the event rather than trailered' proposition, I think you are really getting back to low-buck-high-competition. Tires are the great equalizer.
Please note, I do not mean to confuse a 'spec tire' class with a 'E36 M3ty tire' class. I'm sure General makes something that comes in a ton of sizes that is plenty sporty. Heck, the stock, automatic, mx5 and mazda3 on general tires this year were running 40s and 41s on the autox course with us 'regular' folks driving (anyone remember what the pros were able to do?), and that would be into the teens in our final autox standings list. 35 to 47 was the final autox spread. the mx5 was on 205s and the mazda3 was on 215s. I think a spec general tire could still be engineered to run a top 5 autox.
Robbie said:Andy Neuman said:A 200tw driven to the event class: This would kind of go back to the roots of very cheap racing. This may also get the level of participation up of autocrossers. Yes, people from Florida will still have a huge advantage. Currently to be a top competitor it takes using Hoosiers or some other form of slick to be near the top which generally isn't a cheap habit to keep up for "cheap" racing.
I love this idea. I am already a big proponent of a 'spec tire' class (and since General Tire supports the crap out of our event perhaps we could support them back), but if you combine a spec tire class with a 'has to be driven to the event rather than trailered' proposition, I think you are really getting back to low-buck-high-competition. Tires are the great equalizer.
Please note, I do not mean to confuse a 'spec tire' class with a 'E36 M3ty tire' class. I'm sure General makes something that comes in a ton of sizes that is plenty sporty. Heck, the stock, automatic, mx5 and mazda3 on general tires this year were running 40s and 41s on the autox course with us 'regular' folks driving (anyone remember what the pros were able to do?), and that would be into the teens in our final autox standings list. 35 to 47 was the final autox spread. the mx5 was on 205s and the mazda3 was on 215s. I think a spec general tire could still be engineered to run a top 5 autox.
I like this idea too... but the only challenge is that General's AS-03 & AS-05 are going to restrict you down to prmarily 16 - 18" wheel sizes:
TireRack AS-03
TireRack AS-05
at 480tw
the RT43's have a greater range at 600-700tw and higher profiles:
TireRack RT43
TireRack RT43t
interestingly, General is a OneLap tire option.... hrmmmm
Robbie said:Andy Neuman said:A 200tw driven to the event class: This would kind of go back to the roots of very cheap racing. This may also get the level of participation up of autocrossers. Yes, people from Florida will still have a huge advantage. Currently to be a top competitor it takes using Hoosiers or some other form of slick to be near the top which generally isn't a cheap habit to keep up for "cheap" racing.
I love this idea. I am already a big proponent of a 'spec tire' class (and since General Tire supports the crap out of our event perhaps we could support them back), but if you combine a spec tire class with a 'has to be driven to the event rather than trailered' proposition, I think you are really getting back to low-buck-high-competition. Tires are the great equalizer.
Please note, I do not mean to confuse a 'spec tire' class with a 'E36 M3ty tire' class. I'm sure General makes something that comes in a ton of sizes that is plenty sporty. Heck, the stock, automatic, mx5 and mazda3 on general tires this year were running 40s and 41s on the autox course with us 'regular' folks driving (anyone remember what the pros were able to do?), and that would be into the teens in our final autox standings list. 35 to 47 was the final autox spread. the mx5 was on 205s and the mazda3 was on 215s. I think a spec general tire could still be engineered to run a top 5 autox.
For example, the G-max AS-03 has 64
sizes from 15 to 22, a 40,000 mile warranty (400TW I think that means), and could easily be your transport, autox, drag, and concour tire. Not going to try and kill you in the rain or snow either by the looks of it.
http://generaltire.com/tires/performance/g-max-as-03
In reply to sleepyhead :
Ha! we were doing the same thing at the same time. AS-03 does have a 15 inch option.
In reply to Robbie :
I got slowed down by getting sleepyhead#2 into a nap on my shoulder (yeah 1-hand typing!)
edit: failed the dismount 
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