I thought everyone loved driving a slow car fast. The P71 is exactly that. (Or the regular Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, or Town Car, for that matter. Even better probably, becuase they flop around more, which is hilarious.)
Yeah it's slow as heck. It's a big giant car with a crappy V8. But it's RWD, nearly unbreakable, and you get a couch to sit on.
slowbird said: crappy V8.
The second iteration of that engine breathes much better... 2003+ I think. They last forever, too... much better than the 5.0 in that regard.
You do hear complaints about head gasket / valvetrain wonkiness. Can't remember the details, but I always got the impression that the people who ran into these issues were often break-everything-they-touch types.
...
G35 / G37s have never appealed to me at all. I think it's the styling, and also the fact that you see so many tastelessly modified and generally abused examples. I think those things must come with a sand-laden bathtowel and a coupon for Dawn dish detergent.
Also, a lot of them are black. No thanks.
yupididit said:Indy-Guy said:Jaaaaag XJR makes a really nice Grand Touring sedan. Of course I'm biased, but there are at least four active GRMers who own one.
I think I started that trend
BTW, Thank you very much !
I'm not sure they're universally loved the way that an Answer should be, but the Lexus IS, GS, and LS often come up as suggestions in threads like these.
yupididit said:Curtis73 said:yupididit said:Jordan Rimpela said:It's long been the P71. I don't recommend, however.
I never understood why these were the sedan answer.
On paper, they tick the right boxes. Adequate power, lots of room, good aftermarket, dime-a-dozen availability, good reliability.
If I were going for an "answer" sedan, I'd pick the P71 over the Bimmer if only because I can't afford $400 radiators and VANOS repairs. Granted, I'd rather drive the E46, just not maintain it. I think it's a little bit of a stretch to compare Miata to E46 if only for reliability. The Bimmer definitely ticks all the boxes in factory form, I would just rather P71 and add some Bilsteins and sticky rubber. Have 87.4% of the fun for half the cash.
Even on paper,I don't see it.
I think it's more about practicality than performance. For the money, you get tons of interior, tons of trunk space, lots of highway cruising comfort, and they seem to be reasonably reliable and cheap to repair.
If you're buying a 4 door, it's probably because you have people and their things to haul around. Panthers do those things really well, and they're dirt cheap
slowbird said:I thought everyone loved driving a slow car fast. The P71 is exactly that. (Or the regular Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, or Town Car, for that matter. Even better probably, becuase they flop around more, which is hilarious.)
Yeah it's slow as heck. It's a big giant car with a crappy V8. But it's RWD, nearly unbreakable, and you get a couch to sit on.
I will never forget the time the company bigwigs rented a Town Car and we drove to a sales meeting in Florida. That thing was a hoot. The 5.0 was peppy enough for what it was, but the most memorable feature was the "Dial-A-Rudder" steering feedback control. The range was "Large, Wallowing Pig of a Car" to "OMG, The Steering Wheel is Disconnected!" That thing steered like a battleship.
I like large vehicles, but the "Sedan Answer" has got to be something BMW, like the E36 or E39 530i.
CyberEric said:It doesn’t exist.
The Answer ticks all of these boxes:
-Low maintenance
-Affordable
-Easy to find
-Fun
-Easy to mod (lots of options)
-RWD and MT
what sedan does all that???
I think the Infiniti is probably closest but isn’t that cheap and the G35 has issues.
Why is RWD mandatory? That would seem to be an antithesis. Not cheap, more maintenance issues, less economy.
In the commuter sedan market, the only thing RWD has going for it is the idea that you could do a burnout if you felt like being a shiny happy person.
I suggest things like Avalons "the answer" sedans. Not Camrys, they're too expensive. Avalons are Camrys with a little more wheelbase and they are 50% the buy-in.
In reply to STM317 :
BMW's E38 740 should the 4 door answer to be honest!
I daily a modified Miata and if i have to go 4 door it will be a BMW 3 series thats old enough to not by a 4 wheeled computer, but new enough to be reasonably quick, reliable, and have parts available. E36 Touring or maybe e30 sedan.
Add doors or passengers can't be disabled.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:FWIW, at the KOTH the first year a bunch of dudes brought P71s and they got beat badly by the civics, neons, and sentras. This year there was just one. And it SUCKED. Even in junkyard form pretty much everything sportier than an Aztec is faster than a police interceptor around a track and autocross course.
The problem with this metric is 4000lbs on janky tires. Using KOTH, or results of any competitive event, as a yardstick against the P71 is really asking the wrong question IMO.
Would we ask the same questions, try to tick the same boxes, when asking for the Answer Tow Pig? Does the Answer Sedan need to be high performance, or is adequate performance for the intended task really the right answer?
The RWD sedan answer is BMW.
The coupe answer is FRZBS86
The not-RWD sedan answer is 8th Gen Civic Si
If we are comparing to new Miata, I think the turbo hatch answer will soon be Veloster N
In reply to STM317 :
I'll echo this. I had an IS350 and loved it. I also had a 05 IS300 and they tick alot of boxes off, and you can still find clean examples for fairly cheap.
Curtis73 said:Indy-Guy said:Jaaaaag XJR makes a really nice Grand Touring sedan. Of course I'm biased, but there are at least four active GRMers who own one.
Yasss. I'm still shopping for the right one.
this Jaaag is near you, and will probably go cheap!
A stick shift P71 is disturbingly easy to do.
The Miata is "the answer" because it does everything right and is a fairly inexpensive buy-in for what you get and it causes uncontrollable grins whether it has 100hp or 1000hp.
Exactly how, in any way, does this have to do with a Jag? Most experiences with those older cars are punctuated by despair and regret.
Knurled. said:The Miata is "the answer" because it does everything right and is a fairly inexpensive buy-in for what you get and it causes uncontrollable grins whether it has 100hp or 1000hp.
Exactly how, in any way, does this have to do with a Jag? Most experiences with those older cars are punctuated by despair and regret.
That may be true for the older Jags (despair and regret), but the newer ones are a lot more reliable. I just ticked off over 11,000 miles of trouble free motoring with my 2001 XJR. It provides a nice Grand Touring experience with four doors and C5 levels of performance.
The following members all own XJRs ( that they purchased for $2000 or less ) and none have reported major repairs or regrets:
Indy-Guy said:Curtis73 said:Indy-Guy said:Jaaaaag XJR makes a really nice Grand Touring sedan. Of course I'm biased, but there are at least four active GRMers who own one.
Yasss. I'm still shopping for the right one.
this Jaaag is near you, and will probably go cheap!
I am hopelessly waiting for an X308 Daimler/super V8, but in the entire X308 production, only 800 were made and only about 300 made it stateside. I missed one in MD last year. There are plenty of X350 super v8s, but I would have to deal with the made-of-glass ZF6hp/6G transmission. At least the X308s got the 5G which is a little better, and costs $1500 for a used box instead of $3000.
But who am I kidding... as soon as the auto took a dump, I'd find some way to put a T56 in it.
LS400, LS430.
Indy-Guy said:Knurled. said:The Miata is "the answer" because it does everything right and is a fairly inexpensive buy-in for what you get and it causes uncontrollable grins whether it has 100hp or 1000hp.
Exactly how, in any way, does this have to do with a Jag? Most experiences with those older cars are punctuated by despair and regret.
That may be true for the older Jags (despair and regret), but the newer ones are a lot more reliable. I just ticked off over 11,000 miles of trouble free motoring with my 2001 XJR. It provides a nice Grand Touring experience with four doors and C5 levels of performance.
The following members all own XJRs ( that they purchased for $2000 or less ) and none have reported major repairs or regrets:
- Robbie
- Yupididit
- Whitefly
- and myself
True! Only regret not having more time for it and not taking better care of it!
I had to do the coolant hose that's under the supercharger. While I was in there I replaced everything except the knock sensors. Put it all back together and guess what went next? The knock sensors lol. Literally $80 and 5 extra mins could've avoided that. My fault. Since then I've lost the free time to put it back together. Though I started today!
Other than that they're reliable cars and parts are cheap and plentiful. I rather own an xjr, e38, or LS400 (which probably is THE SEDAN ANSWER of all suggestions) over a p71 crown vic marquis etc.
Marauder the only exception. 
Dr. Hess said:LS400, LS430.
I agree. They run forever with low buy in, space, not super boring, can handle, and they age very well!
In reply to Curtis73 :
There was a x308 super v8 that went for $1000 in Austin last summer. Wish I knew you were looking lol
W211 E55 AMG. Fast car, fast> slow car fast
I owned a 05 Altima Ser with a six speed for a while. I liked it quite a lot.
Knurled. said:The Miata is "the answer" because it does everything right and is a fairly inexpensive buy-in for what you get and it causes uncontrollable grins whether it has 100hp or 1000hp. Also it has many competitive places to play in motorsports.
Exactly how, in any way, does this have to do with a Jag? Most experiences with those older cars are punctuated by despair and regret.
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