What's wrong with the Mazdaspeed Miata?

No idea, but I think its the only option that might work with the stock ECU and OBD2.

I'm hoping someone with more direct knowledge will respond soon, since I'm just taking an educated guess.

kanaric wrote: Bumping an old thread but I have some MSM questions: Is finding a a 3.636 R&P set a good solution for the gearing issue? Or is the trans still too terrible? How do you deal with this overheating problem? Intercooler upgrade or something more? Is there any easymode ecu solutions like nistune or megasquirt pnp for this car or would I have to build my own? edit:Looks like I found an answer to my last question: http://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?cPath=4_37&products_id=722 just thought about it, doing something like that to a OBD2 car makes a car fail smog tests doesn't it.

3.63 rear is a good idea if you have the power to use it. If you have a stock ECU, you don't have the power to use it. Look for a 5spd swap if you don't plan on making much more than 200whp. The best solution for the gearing issue is an aftermarket ECU so you can get the rev limit back up to where it needs to be. The 4.10/6spd combo was not nearly as annoying in our car as it is in stock cars, because we could spin it to 7200rpms. At an estimated 250whp in its "final form," the car could have used a 3.90 rear end, but i still think a 3.63 would have been excessive. The only time it was really annoying was cruising on the highway at 4000rpms in 6th gear @ 80mph.

I'm not aware of an overheating issue with these cars. They have a halfway decent radiator, VERY good fans, and the stock intercooler is so small it doesn't block any flow worth talking about.

Megasquirt PNP is available through MSLabs. Flyin' Miata sells Hydra PNP setups. Haltech PS1000/2000 is available with PNP patch harnesses.

The BeGi reflash isn't something i'd recommend, based on some weird situations happening in the past. It was originally (may still be) advertised as a flash. It's non-reversible.

I believe there was an adaptronic setup or something awhile back that was piggybacked but still pretty powerful.

Honestly, if i were to ever own another one of these again (probably won't), i'd jump straight into a standalone again, and deal with the hassle of putting the car back to stock once every two years in the name of having 729 days of driving that didn't suck. The trade-off is worth it.

I hated the Hydra in our car. (Old version, 2.7 seems to be much improved) I loved the Haltech PS1000 in our car. Currently working with a turbo 95 Miata with Megasquirt. Pleasantly surprised and impressed.

Just curious, how are the 6-speeds in the non-mazdaspeed miatas? Do most people suggest finding a 5 spd instead? There is a miata with the 6 spd on my local Craigslist, I think it says it is an anniversary edition or something?

Hydra 2.7 is much better than 2.6 was.

Mazda claimed shot-peened gears in the MSM trans. Dunno how much that helps with strength, but they're otherwise identical as far as I know.

The 1999 10th anniversary was the debut of the 6-speed. It was paired with a 3.9 for much more intelligent gearing than found in the MSM. You can spot these cars because they are blue EVERYWHERE.

nepa03focus wrote: Just curious, how are the 6-speeds in the non-mazdaspeed miatas? Do most people suggest finding a 5 spd instead? There is a miata with the 6 spd on my local Craigslist, I think it says it is an anniversary edition or something?

The 6spd is a great transmission overall. Makes a lot of sense in N/A cars.

Keith Tanner wrote: Hydra 2.7 is much better than 2.6 was. Mazda claimed shot-peened gears in the MSM trans. Dunno how much that helps with strength, but they're otherwise identical as far as I know. The 1999 10th anniversary was the debut of the 6-speed. It was paired with a 3.9 for much more intelligent gearing than found in the MSM. You can spot these cars because they are blue EVERYWHERE.

Yeah, i was really impressed with that Jeremy showed me in 2.7, and it probably didn't help that i was working with the even older 2.5.

If you head over to the Mazda-Speed forum, there are a lot of guys (and a lady or two?) running the various ECUs discussed here, as well as several who have the BEGi "reflash." Lots of good info on the good & bad of each one. Same with the new rear end vs. 5-speed swap, as there are folks with each option on their cars. I couldn't tell a difference between my MSM's 6-speed and the "regular" 6-speed, as far as shifting goes. Even with the Motorcraft synthetic transmission oil everyone recommends, mine still doesn't like to go into reverse sometimes. I haven't driven a 5-speed recently enough to be able to make a decent comparison between the 6- & 5-speed. There have been several discussions recently about radiators, too. HTH.

I'm in the same boat. I recently installed a wide-band O2 sensor to see what the ECU is doing. Even with the Flyin Miata O2 mod, it is still a bit lean until 5000 RPM or so. Not enough to harm the engine, but enough to notice when it goes into open loop and the AFR goes to the low 13s. I'm pretty close to going with a Hydra because I want something that will work with a better turbo once the stock turbo dies. Until that time, I'm happy with the stock diff (although I'd prefer a 3.9). Also, my 6-speed shifts well enough that I don't miss the 5-speed in my 90 Miata, except for an occasional baulky reverse shift.

Flyin Miatas Little Enchilada does a lot to make the car what it should be.

Swank Force One wrote: 3.63 rear is a good idea if you have the power to use it. If you have a stock ECU, you don't have the power to use it. Look for a 5spd swap if you don't plan on making much more than 200whp.

I'm curious what power has to do with deciding which way to go, when gears 1-5 are functionally similar between both options?

About the MSM radiator - it's not the same as other Miata radiators, and it's more efficient than most aftermarket ones. I suspect a lot of guys installing aluminum "race" radiators are downgrading their cooling system. The FM crossflow is a notable exception, of course - we found out about this while doing the dyno testing to develop our rad.

I have a completely stock 2005 MSM. The gearing is the only bad thing about the car in my opinion. I know this was covered back in September when this thread made its first go around, but I was not checking in here then (I missed about a year on here because of too many work car hours).

I now live in a state that requires OBDII emissions testing - I will have to get the car tested for the first time in its life. I have considered the little enchilada on and off over the years since it has been available, but the gearing being what it is has been the only factor that has made me hesitate. More power would just have me rowing through the gears faster. I autocrossed it a couple times and all the shifting between 2nd and 3rd was irritating, so much that I used other cars instead of this one for autocrossing.

I would love to install a roll bar and do a HPDE with the car even in stock form.

Driven5 wrote: I'm curious what power has to do with deciding which way to go, when gears 1-5 are functionally similar between both options?

The 5 & 6 speed transmissions are sourced from different manufacturers. The 6 speed is considered the stronger of the 2 by everyone who's used both on turbo cars.

I have lunched a 5 speed in a turbo track car. Also have a 6 speed in a non-turbo that randomly grinds gears for no apparent reason. I can live with #1 because the gearbox is seeing extreme duty at double the torque it was designed for. #2 bothers me more.

Thread resurrection.

I am seriously considering buying a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata even after reading all the above caveats.  

( I was looking at a really nice '96 with an FM turbo kit that was professionally installed and all the right suspension parts, but it has a Megasquirt system and cannot pass local emissions testing via OBD II without putting in a spare ECU, changing injectors and a few other things just to pass the test so its scaring me off. Owner tells me it will be exempt in 2 years, at 25 years old, though.)

Masdaspeed owner says its never been modified, looks like its been well taken care of, paint is good, tires fair.   Recent change of water pump and timing belt. 

Guy has too many toy cars and wants to sell..  Maybe that is telling me its not his "go to" fun car - ?

144000 miles.

What do I need to know?  What may be about to break?   I read about someone on this forum who bought one and the head gasket blew not long afterwards.  Is this common? Or was that one possibly over boosted by an inexperienced mechanic before he got it?

You've got try really really hard to blow a Miata head gasket. It takes some serious abuse.

If the radiator is original, it's a time bomb. Otherwise, it's a car with 144k so it'll have wear on bearings, suspension, bushings, etc. There's nothing specific on the MSM that's likely to pop that wouldn't happen on any other car.

Keith Tanner said:

You've got try really really hard to blow a Miata head gasket. It takes some serious abuse.

If the radiator is original, it's a time bomb. Otherwise, it's a car with 144k so it'll have wear on bearings, suspension, bushings, etc. There's nothing specific on the MSM that's likely to pop that wouldn't happen on any other car.

Beat me to what I was about to say. Mazda BP architecture is burly. I'm pushing 245whp on my supercharged engine and I pound on it, without issue. I'd recommend a new radiator (might want to consider a nice aftermarket all-aluminum one so you won't have to deal with plastic tanks ever again) and hoses.

Read what I posted earlier about radiators - the MSM has a unique radiator, and almost every aftermarket unit is a downgrade from stock. Either get a new OE part or an FM crossflow.

In reply to jharry3 :

when o when will I be able to PM? jharry, what's the story on the 96 you found? do you have a link? Some of us are car shopping these days :)

jharry3 said:

( I was looking at a really nice '96 with an FM turbo kit that was professionally installed and all the right suspension parts, but it has a Megasquirt system and cannot pass local emissions testing via OBD II without putting in a spare ECU, changing injectors and a few other things just to pass the test so its scaring me off. Owner tells me it will be exempt in 2 years, at 25 years old, though.)

Verify that with your DMV before believing it.  In Delaware, the 25-year exemption ends [for] 1996 cars, because they are fully OBD-II compliant.

Duke said:

jharry3 said:

( I was looking at a really nice '96 with an FM turbo kit that was professionally installed and all the right suspension parts, but it has a Megasquirt system and cannot pass local emissions testing via OBD II without putting in a spare ECU, changing injectors and a few other things just to pass the test so its scaring me off. Owner tells me it will be exempt in 2 years, at 25 years old, though.)

Verify that with your DMV before believing it.  In Delaware, the 25-year exemption ends with 1996 cars, because they are fully OBD-II compliant.

Yeah, I'd check that as well. NY does the same thing but is ending the cutoff at '96 due to those cars being OBD-II

In reply to NickD :

That's what I was trying to say - 1996 cars and up must pass a plug-in test.

In reply to P3PPY :  Here is the '96 with FM turbo.  

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1996-mazda-miata-mx5-roadster/6661307337.html

In reply to jharry3 :

I owned a 2004 MSM for about 6 months and decided to sell it in favor of an NB2, which I decided was a better platform for building a reliable track car, perhaps to be boosted later.  All of the talk about the gearing in this thread stems from the following: in stock form, the power comes on at 4200 RPM and starts to fall off around 5300 RPM.  The ECU starts to pull timing somewhere around 6200 RPM, with a hard cut at 6500 RPM.  The power band is literally just over 1000 RPM wide.  (I'm going from memory here, so I may be a little off) This is what leads to all the shifting, therefore trans and diff swaps mentioned earlier.  Yes, the FM kit helps with this, but that requires a certain outlay just to make the car act the way it should have from the factory, which would otherwise buy a very nice suspension setup, etc.

Also owned an MSM for a couple years - loved that red paint with gold fleck. Had a hardtop painted to match and they were gorgeous together. Yes - autocrossed it for a while to get my dose of frustration. It did love to wheel hop on launch if you weren't careful. Also wasted money on the usual aftermarket ecu (and learned about support folks that didn't think they should provide support and then didn't believe what I told them and then said I was "lucky" when they finally confirmed what I told them), large injectors and so forth. If I remember correctly the bang for the buck was the improved downpipe. Didn't think much of the oem springs and shocks but never did spend the dollars for replacements as the time arrived for it to move on.  All in all, still my favorite of the 4 Miaters we have owned. If another one popped up and its price were right I would be temped to do it again - except for the "improvements." 

With the Bell Engineering (Begi) reflash they modify the ECU so they can replace the chip, make a socket to plug the reprogrammed chip into essentially.  The reprogramming is based on what you have done to the car, intake DP and exhaust for example  They will send you a second chip with the stock tune if you ask.  If you have limited modifications it is probably a pretty good option.  From my research, pretty much all the problems were with extensively modified cars.  You should retain OBD II functionality, and is a fairly invisible modification, which makes it attractive to me as I live in Kalifornia.  

The 3.63 rear end should have been standard here like it was in Oz.  6 speed with a 3.63, basic bolt ons and a reflash would be fantastic.  Would almost certainly be north of 180 hp at the wheels, with first gear actually of some use.

TasdevEngineer2of3 said:

All in all, still my favorite of the 4 Miaters we have owned. If another one popped up and its price were right I would be temped to do it again" 

This...Although of 'only' 2 Miatae. In retrospect, I think it has something to do with forming more of a bond with cars that have more 'character'.