A dead cylinder could be as simple as a lose plug wire. Do you have a Haynes manual? If not it should be at the top of your parts list. It will cover the basics and also help with a full engine rebuild. Seek out the local Oldsmobile club. Guys will have parts and knowledge, and it might even be free. Don't get discouraged. Even if you sink lots of time and money into it only to see it sold at a loss, the knowledge you gain for the next project will be priceless.
Don't sweat the 305 too much, from what I have seen you could get a replacement 305 for practically nothing if something is seriously wrong. I have a friend who has scrapped a few after trying to sell them, almost couldn't give them away.
There does come a time to cut bait, but if thats what you really want to do, slap some gaskets on it and make it run on all 8 and you will be in a much better position to cut it loose.
More than anything, the rust speaks to me as a reason to cut it loose, do you have access to welding gear?
I learned the rust lesson with a Datsun 280zx, tinkered and got it running pretty well, but the front frame rails were GONE, thankfully I cut it loose without losing money on it (more for lack of spending on it than anything). I got a E30 from a forum member to play with instead, but it was a DD-type thing rather than a project. It would take one special car for me to consider dealing with more than a small rust spot or two, but that's me.
I gather you are young, DO NOT underestimate where what you learn wrenching on cars can take you. I could spin a heck of a story, but the cliffs notes is that wrenching and racing motivated me through an engineering degree and also gave me the contacts and abilities to land a career. It has helped in ways that money couldn't buy.
I don't think that too many GRM readers do the fiscally responsible thing when it comes to cars. Keep going!
Apexcarver wrote: I gather you are young, DO NOT underestimate where what you learn wrenching on cars can take you. I could spin a heck of a story, but the cliffs notes is that wrenching and racing motivated me through an engineering degree and also gave me the contacts and abilities to land a career. It has helped in ways that money couldn't buy.
You pretty much have the reality nailed. Funny, I was in the OP's exact situation 40 years ago with a rusted out MG Midget and managed to tough it out and get the car on the road for the summer. Sold it and moved on. I credit the confidence that it gave me with getting me through an engineering degree later in life and much that I have accomplished since.
To the OP. You seem to have a shopping list to fix something, but have you sorted the bad cylinder? For that matter, how did you diagnose the bad cylinder?
You're 16, it's not like it's the only way for you to get to your full time job every day and get your pregnant wife to the hospital when the time comes. Do you even have a license yet? Use the car to learn on. $1,500.00 total investment so far isn't very much for a running car that looks pretty good.
Did you finish the rallye wheel painting and install them? What happened to the new frame rail that was supposed to be installed?
As far as reliability, fix the known current issues. How do you know it's only running on 7 cylinders? Have you pulled one spark plug wire at a time and restarted to see which cylinder isn't firing? Folks here can guide you through almost anything on that car and answer any question you might have. It's unlikely that there's a problem worth bailing on that car only to buy another that'll probably also need work. It's not like you've got cash saved up to buy a brand new car, or do you? I think you just need some motivation to get over the fear of the unknown. Ask questions, make mistakes, get frustrated, learn, and enjoy a sense of accomplishment along the way.
Rad_Capz wrote: You're 16, it's not like it's the only way for you to get to your full time job every day and get your pregnant wife to the hospital when the time comes. Do you even have a license yet? Use the car to learn on. $1,500.00 total investment so far isn't very much for a running car that looks pretty good. Did you finish the rallye wheel painting and install them? What happened to the new frame rail that was supposed to be installed? As far as reliability, fix the known current issues. How do you know it's only running on 7 cylinders? Have you pulled one spark plug wire at a time and restarted to see which cylinder isn't firing? Folks here can guide you through almost anything on that car and answer any question you might have. It's unlikely that there's a problem worth bailing on that car only to buy another that'll probably also need work. It's not like you've got cash saved up to buy a brand new car, or do you? I think you just need some motivation to get over the fear of the unknown. Ask questions, make mistakes, get frustrated, learn, and enjoy a sense of accomplishment along the way.
The engine is insanely rough, but all the motor mounts are good. Super Stocks are not yet finished, Frame rail is not yet welded in. This car has a bunch of work to do, and I'm going to start at the end of next week.
NOHOME wrote:Apexcarver wrote: I gather you are young, DO NOT underestimate where what you learn wrenching on cars can take you. I could spin a heck of a story, but the cliffs notes is that wrenching and racing motivated me through an engineering degree and also gave me the contacts and abilities to land a career. It has helped in ways that money couldn't buy.You pretty much have the reality nailed. Funny, I was in the OP's exact situation 40 years ago with a rusted out MG Midget and managed to tough it out and get the car on the road for the summer. Sold it and moved on. I credit the confidence that it gave me with getting me through an engineering degree later in life and much that I have accomplished since. To the OP. You seem to have a shopping list to fix something, but have you sorted the bad cylinder? For that matter, how did you diagnose the bad cylinder?
Rough as nails, but with good motor mounts. Plus, it felt like it had a bit of a misfire.
Where is the car now?
Rad_Capz wrote: Where is the car now?
It's now up at a friend's shop in Rockwood.
I think you have a bit or work to do on basic engine diagnosis.
Have you pulled the plugs one at a time to see if one makes no difference when pulled?
Do you have a timing light? (if you do, move the pick-up to each wire to see if the plug is firing if it is, the light will flash, if it is missfiring, you will notice the light falter)
Have you done a compression test on all cylinders?
Have you stuck a vacuum gauge on the engine? The vacuum gauge is the least appreciated tool that I know of and yet one of the most informative when it comes to telling you how healthy an engine is. VERY cheap tool.
Here is a two second search on how to use one. Couple of thousand more hits that I did not look at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdlNwm8OHco
I really like leakdown testers to tell me how good the engine is, but not strictly necessary if you have compression.
Rather than asking open ended broad questions, why not post up YOUR plan of attack to deal with any one problem and ask for help or validation on that one issue?
It would help knowing what kind of resources you have to deal with the project. Shop-space, budget, experience and time are all things that factor into our answers. I know you are young, I know money is tight. I have no idea if you are in a garage or apartment parking spot. What kind of tools do you own? Are you mechanically inclined or is this whole car thing out of your comfort zone and you just want to drive a cool old car? If this is torture, then by all means bail, it should be fun.
NOHOME wrote: I think you have a bit or work to do on basic engine diagnosis. Have you pulled the plugs one at a time to see if one makes no difference when pulled? Have you done a compression test on all cylinders? Have you stuck a vacuum gauge on the engine? The vacuum gauge is the least appreciated tool that I know of and yet one of the most informative when it comes to telling you how healthy an engine is. Here is a two second search on how to use one. Couple of thousand more hits that I did not look at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdlNwm8OHco I really like leakdown testers, but not strictly necessary if you have compression. Rather than asking open ended broad questions, why not post up your plan of attack to deal with any one problem and ask for help or validation on that one issue?
It needs plugs and wires anyways, so I'll do those and see if it runs more smoothly. I'll probably do a compression test while I'm at it.
G_Body_Man wrote:NOHOME wrote: I think you have a bit or work to do on basic engine diagnosis. Have you pulled the plugs one at a time to see if one makes no difference when pulled? Have you done a compression test on all cylinders? Have you stuck a vacuum gauge on the engine? The vacuum gauge is the least appreciated tool that I know of and yet one of the most informative when it comes to telling you how healthy an engine is. Here is a two second search on how to use one. Couple of thousand more hits that I did not look at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdlNwm8OHco I really like leakdown testers, but not strictly necessary if you have compression. Rather than asking open ended broad questions, why not post up your plan of attack to deal with any one problem and ask for help or validation on that one issue?It needs plugs and wires anyways, so I'll do those and see if it runs more smoothly. I'll probably do a compression test while I'm at it.
Do exactly what Nohome suggested. Test the spark as he said before throwing those on the car away. You gather up those mostly free or borrowed tools and spend an afternoon learning a lot about the engine.
As far as cam lobes, all you really need to do is pull the valve covers and watch them dance under cranking (leave the coil wire off so it won't fire).
Valve cover gaskets? Please, that's like $10 and twenty minutes.
Rust? Yeah, you're in Canada and you have no money. Everything you are going to be able to get will have rust.
When I was your age, I bought an 81 Camaro with a swapped IN (!!!) 305/TH350. It used to be a four speed car, so it still had a clutch pedal that just wasn't connected to anything. It was painted four different colors, and all of the springs were broken and/or sagging so it sat all weird. When I bought it, it had a super-trick 4-7 swap, except the guy just swapped the wires, so it was running on six. When I brought it home and parked in my uphill driveway, it peed all of the gasoline out from the tank forward. It had no headliner, just a cloth flag of a wizard with lightening bolts stapled to the cardboard. The seats and steering wheel were red, and the dash and door panels were black.
I can't even remember all of the other crap that was wrong with it. I also didn't have GRM. Just a basic set of tools. TunaDad would say "I dunno, it sounds like it's broken", so learning was tough.
Point is this. You have GRM on your side, and a running, driving car that you already paid for. You already have a friend and the parts for a repair to the only rust on the car which actually matters. Your engine runs, but not well. This is the PERFECT time for you to learn how to test for spark, how to use a timing light, a vacuum gauge, how to tune a carb, how to change basic parts, and get some stuff humming.
You're going to be fine. If you keep buying and selling, looking for the perfect car, you're going to be broke and irritated. Every car at this price point is going to be a mess. It sounds like you have a good one. Fix your junk and drive it. We're with you.
I wish I had this forum when I was your age. My first car was a 84 honda prelude with a misdiagnosed bad carb. I had never worked on cars before (and my dad can't find a socket in a tool store), but I had a crappy chilton's repair manual and a new carb. Took months to get it all switched over. When I fired it up, it ran but was way down on power. I drove it to the closest shop and they told me I had no compression in 2 of the 4 cylinders - either a headgasket or a warped/cracked head was their best guess. At that point I bought a second car.
My second car died about 2 years later (93 VW fox) due to a fuel injector issue. I couldn't figure it out at the time.
Long story short, I sold both cars for beans. Maybe $40 combined. And now if I had both back I'm sure a long saturday would allow me to have both running again. But the point is I learned throughout the whole process.
Think about what you want right now. Do you want a car that you can drive? or do you want a car you will keep in the garage the rest of your life?
You are already have about a $1500 head start over any other car if you just want to drive, and just drive the dang thing is exactly what I would do. Its never going to be perfect, but that is what is awesome about a beater. Let us help you get the motor running on all 8 and then just drive it. Leaks/smeaks. Park in the street. A 4 door v8 RWD beater is just about as close to a H.S. dream car as I can imagine.
I vote for finding a shop or friendly person with experience and a welder and doing whatever you can to help them get the frame rust fixed. Shop assistant for the day, basically. Rusty rear doors? Bumper? Come on. The pictures I've seen of the car makes me think it is pretty solid.
Once you have the frame fixed, take serious stock of the engine. The above comments about using the existing plugs to check engine condition were smart. You're looking for oil on the plugs, plugs that are badly carbon fouled, etc. Figure out this dead cylinder situation (how was that determined?) and start reading everything you can on basic engine maintenance and trouble shooting. High quality replacement gaskets for everything you've described should come in under $100. As long as the rear main seal isn't leaking, everything you've mentioned is pretty easy stuff to change.
A G-body with a Chevy small block is a pretty good platform to do anything you want with. It's kind of all been done before. If you shop around and find someone that has done the kind of rust repair your car seems to need, have them check yours over, and unless this thing is a lot worse than pictures make it out to be, I'd start there.
Thanks guys. I think that from now on, I'll stop being a coward and fix my damn car. Thanks for the advice! Now to dig up my aviation snips so that I can trim the rust off the bottom of the bumper.
G_Body_Man wrote: Thanks guys. I think that from now on, I'll stop being a coward and fix my damn car. Thanks for the advice! Now to dig up my aviation snips so that I can trim the rust off the bottom of the bumper.
Whoa! Recal what I said about posting your action plan and running it past the review comitee here?
Rusty bumper? Aviation tin snips? Not computing. You must have a cell phone. What exactly are you trying to fix?
If it is just a rust hole. I might be tempted to smooth the rough chunks from around the edge and use aluminum tape over the hole to get it past the safety. I've seen entire rotten rocker panels go though that way.
I had a '67 Belvedere II in high school. It ran, but not very well. When I look back, I could have done so much for so little, to make it run better if I just wasn't afraid to mess it up.
Before you spend the money on new plug wires, check the resistance of the old ones. It's easy and it's free. If they're still within spec, reinstall them. Do you have a digital multimeter? Harbor Freight gives them away with a coupon all the time. Start there. Then clean every ground that you can find and make sure that the timing is where it should be.
Rebuilding a carb is easy and cheap. Try it. Forget about driving this car for now. Use it as a learning tool.
I say don't just go in there change plugs and wires. Take the time and diagnose the misfire. Thats the learning part of the process, that can save you money in the future with this project and other projects.
NOHOME wrote:G_Body_Man wrote: Thanks guys. I think that from now on, I'll stop being a coward and fix my damn car. Thanks for the advice! Now to dig up my aviation snips so that I can trim the rust off the bottom of the bumper.Whoa! Recal what I said about posting your action plan and running it past the review comitee here? Rusty bumper? Aviation tin snips? Not computing. You must have a cell phone. What exactly are you trying to fix? If it is just a rust hole. I might be tempted to smooth the rough chunks from around the edge and use aluminum tape over the hole to get it past the safety. I've seen entire rotten rocker panels go though that way.
The bottom of the bumper is completely rusted through. My plan is to use aviation snips to cut out the now extremely fragile metal, then use rust converter and a lick of paint to keep rust at bay on the rest of the bumper. As for owning a cell phone, my car sucks up too much money for me to afford a phone.
Woody wrote: I had a '67 Belvedere II in high school. It ran, but not very well. When I look back, I could have done so much for so little, to make it run better if I just wasn't afraid to mess it up. Before you spend the money on new plug wires, check the resistance of the old ones. It's easy and it's free. If they're still within spec, reinstall them. Do you have a digital multimeter? Harbor Freight gives them away with a coupon all the time. Start there. Then clean every ground that you can find and make sure that the timing is where it should be. Rebuilding a carb is easy and cheap. Try it. Forget about driving this car for now. Use it as a learning tool.
Timing is non-adjustable, because OBDI and computer-controlled HEI. Carb has been recently rebuilt. Will check resistance, as well as for deposits on the plugs. It's either spark, compression, or a rounded off cam lobe. I'll start with checking for spark and compression, and I'll go from there.
Base timing is adjustable; http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Hot_rodding_the_HEI_distributor#Computer_controlled_HEI
I wouldn't blame you for throwing in a good set of plugs, but do that after you've determined they actually need to be changed, and have been "read" to get more information on engine condition. Do a compression test at the same time. Write down EVERYTHING you find. The car may very well have a wiped cam lobe but don't assume it's something that drastic until you have exhausted every other option.
EDIT: And I wouldn't worry about the bumper right now. Make sure the frame isn't so trashed that this is a black hole. I think I'd rather go for a grinder to remove the rust, the snips idea seems kind of not viable.
pres589 wrote: Base timing is adjustable; http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Hot_rodding_the_HEI_distributor#Computer_controlled_HEI I wouldn't blame you for throwing in a good set of plugs, but do that after you've determined they actually need to be changed, and have been "read" to get more information on engine condition. Do a compression test at the same time. Write down EVERYTHING you find. The car may very well have a wiped cam lobe but don't assume it's something that drastic until you have exhausted every other option. EDIT: And I wouldn't worry about the bumper right now. Make sure the frame isn't so trashed that this is a black hole. I think I'd rather go for a grinder to remove the rust, the snips idea seems kind of not viable.
The bumper is so rusted, you could tear out the bottom with safety scissors. I'll double-check the timing (my grandad gave me a timing light a couple of years ago) and do a compression test after I've fixed all the seals. You don't want to light your car on fire trying to diagnose a small problem.
Worst case scenario, if you do give up on it, pull the engine and scrap the rusty body. Then slowly, but completely disassemble the entire engine and learn how everything works inside. Keep a bucket handy and toss in every bolt that you remove. Go back to that bucket every time you need a bolt for the next 20 years.
G_Body_Man wrote:NOHOME wrote:The bottom of the bumper is completely rusted through. My plan is to use aviation snips to cut out the now extremely fragile metal, then use rust converter and a lick of paint to keep rust at bay on the rest of the bumper. As for owning a cell phone, my car sucks up too much money for me to afford a phone.G_Body_Man wrote: Thanks guys. I think that from now on, I'll stop being a coward and fix my damn car. Thanks for the advice! Now to dig up my aviation snips so that I can trim the rust off the bottom of the bumper.Whoa! Recal what I said about posting your action plan and running it past the review comitee here? Rusty bumper? Aviation tin snips? Not computing. You must have a cell phone. What exactly are you trying to fix? If it is just a rust hole. I might be tempted to smooth the rough chunks from around the edge and use aluminum tape over the hole to get it past the safety. I've seen entire rotten rocker panels go though that way.
OK that sounds like a viable plan. Going to be a grunt with tin snips, but maybe it will work. You look for a Kajiji bumper by chance or is that off budget at this point?
I realize that I take my tool arsenal for granted, so bear with me if I try to spend your $$$ for you!
In reply to NOHOME:
Can't find any sedan bumpers on Kijiji. I'll need a grinder at some point, just not now. Besides, It's better to be an extra $200 in the hole and have the car mostly fixed than to not, and be a couple hundred in the hole if I wanted to sell it.
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