Where does while im in there stop?

Fixing to stuff an engine and trans in a neon.

The engine and trans ran this morning in the parts car. Throwout bearing makes horrendous noises, and the valve cover gasket leaks. Possibly the oil pan gasket as well.

Unknown history on the timing belt, etc.

So i ordered a timing belt kit. 

Valve cover gasket i have.

But what else? Do i do a full re-seal? Valve stem seals? How far do i go while its all on the floor? 

If it matters, its a running 2.4 dodge stratus engine that was/is being swapped into a 98 neon.

When I run out of time, patience, or money. 

Where does it stop?  When your entire car is disassembled into 6,874 pieces, all laid out on your garage floor. ;)

On a more serious note, it depends on how long you intend to keep the car running.  Anything more than a year, I would recommend the full reseal and valve stem seals.

When I did the 1.8 swap into my NA Miata, I did everything...  crank, cam and rear seals, TB/WP, valve adjustment.  All new gaskets everywhere (except the oil pan).  I even did the head gasket, though I probably would have skipped that if it hadn't been a requirement for the coolant re-route.

When I swapped the engine into my NB, I just did the intake gasket because I was putting the NB1 manifold on the NB2 engine.

The NA hasn't leaked a drop, and runs like a champ after two years of trackdays.

The NB has an oil leak I'm still trying to chase down.

Moral of the story... do everything you can while it's easy.  

*i* replace what is currently berkeleyed or what is both (1) nearly impossible to access *and* (2) near the end of a typical lifetime.

in your specific example, if it didn't smoke out the exhaust i wouldn't bother with valve seals.   I'd replace VCG and maybe oil pan gasket, plus the timing belt (and water pump if this engine follows the standard "while I'm in there..." logic for WP) 

The valve stem seals are both nearly impossible to access and near the end of their lifespan. 

And the timing belt has to come off for them. 

The gasket set with valve stem seals is 45 on ebay, verses 15 for the valve cover gasket, and 8 of the oil pan.....

If it was me, Id to timing belt and water pump, fix the easy leaks and call it a day. Valve stem seals are cake with the right tool btw. 

In reply to Professor_Brap :

Care to elaborate ? I hate smoking cars. And trying on the spare head on the bench was a nightmare with the otc tools overhead cam valvespring compressor....

 this is the tool I have/similar. I have ebay one I bought when we did the swap in the parking lot, and a nice old Matco one I bought from a retiring technician. 

I did valve seals on a srt this weekend, only took 6 hours from when it pulled in to pulling out. 

EDIT: does it only smoke on startup or while under load? 

Doesn't smoke at all right now. But my fear is that it WILL once installed. 

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I don't know how frisky you are feeling, but you could just visually inspect them when you have valve cover off. Also if valve cover is leaking, i would say timing belt is quite old. 

Do me a favor, you find this answer, let me know. Call collect if you need to (is that still a thing?). I just had some of these moments thinking about the tib. Neds a timing belt and VC gaskets. Might as well paint the cam covers. And some plugs/wires. And headers because they're less than $100. If I'm going that far might as well ..... E36 M3. 

The truck has become the epitome of "while I'm in there" and has even gotten the wife on board with it. "You might as well while you're in there."

Prifessor: That was my thought. And i have a nice powdercoated valve cober that will replace it.

Id prefer NOT to get deeper than is reasonable here. But it will be my daily for a year or two while i get the ACR right. And im trying to walk the line between scope creep and having to fix the daily.....

Ive ordered the full gasket kit. I will visually inspect the valve stem seals.

Is there a good way to do them with the head in place? Or am i pissing up a rope?

Bob: i have enough long term, wallet draining, marriage threatening projects already. This is a tough line for me to find.....

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

You can use a valve spring compressor that attaches to where the cams bolt down, but I personally pull the head, its a little easier/I bet it needs oil restrictor mod done. 

While im in here...... 

Professor_Brap said:

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

You can use a valve spring compressor that attaches to where the cams bolt down, but I personally pull the head, its a little easier/I bet it needs oil restrictor mod done. 

While im in here...... 

Please god no.....

I bought the parts car specifically BECAUSE it ran well with no smoke or noises. 

Toyman01 said:

When I run out of time, patience, or money. 

 

Nailed it.

I wouldn't worry to much, just doing timing belt, fix your major leaks and enjoy. Do you have the dohc timing tool? 

Here's a for instance. 

I just finished a timing belt replacement in the Samurai. I ordered a timing belt kit with idler, a water pump, a thermostat, hoses, alternator belt, and a radiator.

The only thing I didn't use was the water pump. The one that was on it was in perfect shape, so I'll throw the new one on the shelf and never use it. 

Most of those parts were perfectly fine and would have run thousands more miles. If it had been the wife's car, or the Jeep, it would have gotten the bare minimum to keep it on the road. I would have been in a hurry to get them back on the road. Slam, bam, done. I hate working on DDs and am always in a rush to get them out of the shop. 

Since the Samurai sits in the shop most of the time and doesn't move, it took me a week to do the job. I would work on it a little when I could find the time so I didn't mind doing the extra work. No rush, no fuss, just piddling around in the shop. Fun stuff.  

Which seals will be an absolute mother once the engine is in the car? Those are the ones to replace when the engine is not.

Last time I followed 'while I'm in there' to its natural conclusion I replaced a 97 jeep with a 2013 pickup. Good luck, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

Do the timing belt, water pump and the usual gaskets including the oil pan while it's out of the car. Skip the valve seals and head gasket. Stick it in the car and enjoy. Toss in new hoses and thermostat while you're there if they don't look recent.

While you're in there, you might as well install a built 360, 5-speed trans, and live axle rear. That's how all my "while I'm in there"s go. 

Appleseed said:

Which seals will be an absolute mother once the engine is in the car? Those are the ones to replace when the engine is not.

None, they can all be done quite easily with motor in the car. 

I had a similar situation with my MR2 Spyder. I ended up doing this:

"I got the thermostat, valve cover gasket, water pump, axle seals (since the axles had to come out anyway), transmission input seal, rear main seal, front crank seal, timing cover gaskets, exhaust manifold gasket and donut gaskets, throttle body gasket (again, the throttle body had to be changed, so..), and a new serpentine belt." I also ended up replacing the serpentine belt tensioner and the timing chain tensioner. It was all much easier with the motor on the stand. I didn't end up using the transmission input shaft seal because on that car you have to split the transmission case to do it and that was not something I was interested in. Any O-rings I took off the car, I replaced with new ones from my extensive o-ring stash.

If any of those parts (like the tensioner) are known low mileage then reuse them. But mine were all total unknowns.

Two seasons of pretty much daily driving and it's been awesome. I do have a tiny oil leak that I need to track down.

I made the decision today that it will get cleaned, regasketed, belts and hoses. Maybe spark plugs if needed. I'll do the rear main as well, seeing as how i have to pull the trans due to a noisy throwout bearing. I have a couple of good used clutches if necessary as well.

That seems like the best line in the sand. Stave off potential problems, make it more pleasant and easier to work on, and not dump a ton of money. Timing belt and gasket kit were 125 all in, and i think i have good hoses for the radiator. I know i have new standard heater hose for those, a good aluminium radiator, rtv, o rings, etc.

I just need to talk myself out of painting it all while its apart....