I've been searching for a clean E30 sedan, but it seems like they've either all been snapped up by their forever homes or fallen into disrepair and rust. I love their aesthetic, but I'm worried that moving to a newer generation 3 Series might lose that "go-kart" feel and become a maintenance headache. I’m not planning to track the car—just looking for something really fun to drive at legal speeds with four doors. Any other recommendations?
In reply to breaqnaway :
An e46 is an e30 with the m54 swap already done by the factory :p. Maybe a little less go-kart feel, but still drives great, and having had two e30s, I moved on to the e46 because it's half the price of a decent e30 these days, I don't regret my decision at all.
That being said, mine are going to be for sale soon because my 7 day a week job is killing me and i need something with a warranty to put 20k miles a year on.
I've long been of the opinion that the E30 is a great car, but has been lionized in a way that really undersells some of the later stuff.
For a really similar experience, look into an E36 318ti, or find an early pre-VANOS E36 325i which is a seriously underrated driving experience (much better steering than an E30, only 150lbs heavier, significantly more power potential in the M50 engine).
I will also add that coming out of a 2010-present car, even an E46 feels like a go-kart by comparison.
"I've long been of the opinion that the E30 is a great car, but has been lionized in a way that really undersells some of the later stuff."
I could not agree more, having owned an E30 and an E36 M3. The price the E30 goes for is nuts now. I would WAY rather have an E46 for everything except appearance. I do think the E30 looks much cooler than all the newer stuff. But you pay for it.
"For a really similar experience, look into an E36 318ti, or find an early pre-VANOS E36 325i which is a seriously underrated driving experience (much better steering than an E30, only 150lbs heavier, significantly more power potential in the M50 engine)."
My dad had a 1992 325i and that pre-vanos engine loved to rev. It was dead in the water at low RPM, but man it pulled when it came on. He had a Jim Conforti chip in it and it just felt great. The VANOS made them less peaky was my experience.
To the OP, define "go-kart feel" please. To me the slow steering in the E30 makes it feel anything but go-kart.
Where did they go? They got old. It's been more than 30 years since a new E30 was sold in the US.
I sold my coupe last year for decent price. Buddy's crashed 2 sedan spec e30 race cars, most of the field is 4 doors. Aa everyone has mentioned, a lot are migrating to e46 as they are cheaper to run now.
Keith Tanner said:Where did they go? They got old. It's been more than 30 years since a new E30 was sold in the US.
My daily driver in the winters is a 1988 325iX that I've had for ages. It's funny how it's gone from just plain old car to "Hey you never see one of those anymore." Virtually every day I get horn honks and thumbs up from other drivers (I've had a couple people scold me for driving it during bad weather.) I intend on keeping it until they check me into the old folks home, or when repair parts are finally unavailable.
In reply to stuart in mn :
I've had the same experience with my survivor 1989 Miata. When my dad bought it in 1999, it was probably the rattiest Miata I'd ever seen. Now it's 35 and people are amazed at how clean it is. It's never been restored, just driven and cared for.
Yeah the E30 has transitioned from yuppie mobile to cool vintage performance car over time.
Engine fires, people getting them for a high school/college hot rod and parting them out when they grew up, people who daily drove them and had them maintained at a shop getting a repair bull that was too high and giving up on it, etc. it was hard to find a good one even 15+ years ago.
I know where a few of them ended up.
In reply to CyberEric :
Yup, I've always thought that the buzzsaw non-VANOS M50 I6 is a deeply underappreciated engine, they have a pure and classic kind of drivability that went away as BMW kept finding ways to move the torque peak down, a stripper E36 with that engine is a really good drive.
I wrote a reply about rust and tiny, but I thought it sounded too cranky.
I sure don't get the e30 love.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
Yep. Not to mention I prefer the E36 rear suspension to the E30s by far. So much easier to control the rear in my experience than the older E30 design. The E36 still needs RTAB limiters, but so much less "code brown" the way an E30 does snap oversteer. I autocrossed both and the E36 is rear is just so much better.
In reply to CyberEric :
Funny E30 autox story:
I had my '90 325i, and for those that haven't driven one, the rack is SLOW, it feels like 17 turns lock to lock (it's like ~4). Faster Z3 racks are a popular swap.
So I'm at an autox school, and my instructor normally drives a 2006 Mini CooperS. We did 6-7 runs, and he was very complimentary about my car placement, reading the course, clipping apexes, etc. The one area I kept falling flat was the slalom. By the end, I was always behind/off the line by a half a car length or so. I could tell he was getting a little frustrated. I said, "I know everyone blames the car, but seriously, it might be the car. Humor me, take it for a lap" He said he usually doesn't drive student cars, but we knew each other well enough he'd try. He zips around the course, as we enter the 1st right in the slalom, he gets the car turned in, moves the wheel back left about the same amount he would in the Mini, and realizes the car is STILL TURNING RIGHT...by like a lot. We miss the cone and go off course, come to a stop, and he is full on belly laughing, "Forget everything I was trying to tell you, the fact that you got this through 7 gates at all means I am deeply impressed."
CyberEric said:In reply to pointofdeparture :
Yep. Not to mention I prefer the E36 rear suspension to the E30s by far. So much easier to control the rear in my experience than the older E30 design. The E36 still needs RTAB limiters, but so much less "code brown" the way an E30 does snap oversteer. I autocrossed both and the E36 is rear is just so much better.
None of this makes sense to me. My Spec E30 was one of the easiest cars to drive fast around a race track I've ever owned. I could drive it at 10/10ths, four wheel drifting through turns and easily closing the gap with 'faster' cars. I did not find my E36 M3 better in anything but horsepower.
In reply to ddavidv :
The E36 has substantially better geometry with much better camber and toe curves. Feel aside, it's just objectively better.
Rear semi-trailing arms are a compromised suspension geometry at best. There's a reason nobody uses them any more.
IIRC, Stock class E30s had a tendency to roll over when you put them on sticky R compounds and went through a slalom.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
While that's true, I've never experienced snap oversteer in an e30. The limits are higher (all else equal ) with an e36, and the e30 doesn't seem to put power down particularly well but it sure is tossable and easy to catch.
Stock, the ride height was too high, at least on US models. I suspect it was to meet bumper requirements. A set of Eibach lowering springs fixes that in a weekend.
My E30 was on a stock suspension with crap tires, which probably contributed to it. It certainly wasn't set up as well as a Spec E30 would be. Stock, I thought it was hard to catch the rear and spun out once. Especially with the glacial steering rack. My E36 M3 was easier for me to drive fast. I felt like I had to drive around the unplanted-feeling rear, especially in transitions. Whereas in the E36, transitions were almost its specialty. My dad's E36 325i was similar from what I remember.
I had a similar experience in a M Coupe (same rear suspension) where the rear just felt spooky to me. I prefer the E36. Glad some of you have a better experience with the E30. That wasn't my experience. YMMV.
I'd love to drive a Spec E30 back to back with a well set up E36 and see if I still felt the same way.
All else being equal I think a big reason that Z3s feel extra spooky at the limit is because you're basically sitting on the rear axle in a way that you aren't in an E30. (Also obviously the six cylinder cars and Ms give you a lot more oomph to get yourself into trouble with than any E30)
Flynlow said:I had my '90 325i, and for those that haven't driven one, the rack is SLOW, it feels like 17 turns lock to lock (it's like ~4).
Also had a '90 325i. Used to get comments about my funny hand placement in autox. "Yeah dude, I need to turn the damn wheel like 270 degrees."
Fabulous car, though. I still get the warm fuzzies thinking about it. It was much too nice for track rat duty, but getting a little too scruffy for street-driving purposes without a lot more care and attention than I was able to offer it. A teenager bought it from me, and (from what I can tell) sold it to someone else within a year, who started but then gave up on an M52 swap and listed the car on FB Marketplace. So that's n+1 E30s stuck in project car limbo. I hope it gets the refresh it deserves & returns to the dwindling supply of driveable examples.
An E36 or E46 may be slightly down on personality relative to an E30, but by all accounts (+ my own limited experience) are much better to drive and own. Not sure what else from the '80s would scratch that same E30 itch. Seems there's a reasonable supply of affordable Benz 190Es in nice condition - definitely less sporty, but if [the OP] is just hunting for a rad-era yuppie sedan maybe a 2.6 model with some tasteful modifications?
I must be the only E30 owner that doesn't think it's special. I bought it because it was the cheapest caged rally car available at the time. It's just a typical boxy sedan of the era, but with round headlights. My wife is obsessed with the straight line from the front to rear, which makes it special somehow? The engines are all finicky, the suspension is primitive, and it likes to rust. Every time I work on it I'm shocked at how my 1991 Miata and 1991 318is were built at the same time, but everything about the BMW feels so ancient, weird and overly complicated in comparison. Probably not a totally fair comparison since 1991 was the end of the E30 and the beginning of the Miata. Maybe I'd feel differently if I drove one in stock or street form. Fully caged, straight exhaust, welded diff and gravel suspension is probably not fair either. It's a good thing that there's so many of you guys that genuinely love the things on here, otherwise I'd probably never keep it running.
You'll need to log in to post.
