newrider3 said:
No. Not only no, berkeley no. That should not even be legally allowed.
Why, you don't like the idea of a blutooth connection? Data mining? Some other reason? Genuinly interested in your thoughts.
newrider3 said:
No. Not only no, berkeley no. That should not even be legally allowed.
Why, you don't like the idea of a blutooth connection? Data mining? Some other reason? Genuinly interested in your thoughts.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
I don't feel like I can rely on a smartphone to consistently do it's normal communication and entertainment functions with 100% certainty, it just does not feel smart to rely on one in a critical or life safety application like trailer brakes.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:newrider3 said:No. Not only no, berkeley no. That should not even be legally allowed.Why, you don't like the idea of a blutooth connection? Data mining? Some other reason? Genuinly interested in your thoughts.
I don't know what newrider3's objection is but I have strong reservations about safety-critical real time control software running on a cell phone. Add in the wireless connection and I'm really uncomfortable. It's one thing if an incoming text message takes over system resources and makes Spotfy hang, momentarily interrupting your Miley Cyrus sing along. It's another if your trailer brake controller has to sit out some CPU cycles while you're trying to avoid hitting the nitwit who just drifted in front of you while trying to figure out why their cell phone interupted their Miley Cyrus sing along.
In reply to APEowner :
It's the ebrake operation. Other than that, it will use the last used settings- so you have brakes regardless of the phone. We got one last fall and it was super easy to install. Better if you lease, since cars change...
And even if the cellphone works today, it may not work tomorrow because the part manufacturer has lost interest or the sketchy code crashes.
Hell no from me too.
Question: have you called your Volvo dealer to find out if there's an adapter harness? Europeans tow stuff with wagons and that's basically a European car. Although I suspect they don't use brake controllers.
15 years ago or so, there was a wireless remote controller that my dad used an a disaster relief trailer he helped outfit. No "smart" (not so smart) tech involved controller mounted near trailer breakaway battery, and remote went in whatever truck/van you rented to tow it with. No clue it tech happy public buyers have allowed anything like that to still be sold.
Great movie BTW
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Why, you don't like the idea of a blutooth connection? Data mining? Some other reason? Genuinly interested in your thoughts.
What the others have said, but for me, reliability. My rule is always keep everything plugged in unless it's truly mobile like a phone. There's a reason I have Ethernet drops all over my house.
Of course, you wouldn't be dealing with this issue if you had a proper tow vehicle. 
alfadriver said:In reply to APEowner :
It's the ebrake operation. Other than that, it will use the last used settings- so you have brakes regardless of the phone. We got one last fall and it was super easy to install. Better if you lease, since cars change...
I just looked on the Kurt website for more information (which I probably should have done before bashing the product). The app is used for configuration and manual override. The also sell a dedicated wireless override button. I'm quite a bit more OK with it with that information. Relying on the phone for the manual override doesn't seem like a great idea and I'm still not crazy about the wireless override button but it's not the horrible idea I first thought it was.
I came here to recommend the Curt Echo. It's the droid you're looking for when there's no easy plug-n-play solution.
Lots of jumping to conclusions and incorrect assumptions above. We've been quite pleased with ours.
APEowner said:alfadriver said:In reply to APEowner :
It's the ebrake operation. Other than that, it will use the last used settings- so you have brakes regardless of the phone. We got one last fall and it was super easy to install. Better if you lease, since cars change...
I just looked on the Kurt website for more information (which I probably should have done before bashing the product). The app is used for configuration and manual override. The also sell a dedicated wireless override button. I'm quite a bit more OK with it with that information. Relying on the phone for the manual override doesn't seem like a great idea and I'm still not crazy about the wireless override button but it's not the horrible idea I first thought it was.
The big reason for me to do it was that it's a lease car. Less to pull out, and then put in for the next one. If we end up buying, I'll probably go wired- but having the wireless one for set up is pretty nice.
One thing I have added are some extra ways to hold the unit into the 7 pin connector- as the stock rubber thing is kind of useless. I have some small velcro straps to help hold it in.
I got called back by my local Genera RV this evening. Once I told them the vehicle they immediately said to use the Curt wireless one. Off to have a poke around.
Keith Tanner said:Question: have you called your Volvo dealer to find out if there's an adapter harness? Europeans tow stuff with wagons and that's basically a European car. Although I suspect they don't use brake controllers.
It's been a while since I towed in Europe, but I'm pretty sure any of the braked trailers I encountered there had surge brakes, not electrical brakes.
BoxheadTim said:Keith Tanner said:Question: have you called your Volvo dealer to find out if there's an adapter harness? Europeans tow stuff with wagons and that's basically a European car. Although I suspect they don't use brake controllers.
It's been a while since I towed in Europe, but I'm pretty sure any of the braked trailers I encountered there had surge brakes, not electrical brakes.
I wasn't going to post on that since my experience is at least 27 years old. But every large trailer I drove in the UK always had surge brakes not electric. I kind of assumed things have changed in the last quarter century or so.
Well I had a huge long post typed out on my phone then lost it. So briefly, I ordered the Autowbrake Electric Brake Controller that was suggested on the previous page. I got this over the Curt Bluetooth enabled one that caused all the controversy for a few reasons. First, while I wasn't as afraid of the Bluetooth connection and app as some people were, the one I'm getting should still work in 10, 15, or 20 years even after everybody's phone has moved to watch ever replace his Bluetooth. Second, my connector is quite low being a wagon not an SUV. I don't like that long moment arm of it for the heavy plug and cable to be bouncing up and down on. Third, I think the hardware, accelerometers etc. are probably better quality on this so I think it is a higher quality unit.
I wanted to order from e-trailer as I think they are an amazing company. I've bought a ton of stuff from them over years including three tow hitches, axles, hubs ets etc. Unfortunately their delivery times were all next week even with expensive shipping. Amazon has it at the same price with free shipping with ordering at the touch of my finger. Sorry e-trailer, Bezos wins this one.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Well I had a huge long post typed out on my phone then lost it. So briefly, I ordered the Autowbrake Electric Brake Controller that was suggested on the previous page. I got this over the Curt Bluetooth enabled one that caused all the controversy for a few reasons. First, while I wasn't as afraid of the Bluetooth connection and app as some people were, the one I'm getting should still work in 10, 15, or 20 years even after everybody's phone has moved to watch ever replace his Bluetooth. Second, my connector is quite low being a wagon not an SUV. I don't like that long moment arm of it for the heavy plug and cable to be bouncing up and down on. Third, I think the hardware, accelerometers etc. are probably better quality on this so I think it is a higher quality unit.
I wanted to order from e-trailer as I think they are an amazing company. I've bought a ton of stuff from them over years including three tow hitches, axles, hubs ets etc. Unfortunately their delivery times were all next week even with expensive shipping. Amazon has it at the same price with free shipping with ordering at the touch of my finger. Sorry e-trailer, Bezos wins this one.
Not that you need my approval but I think you made a good choice for your application. I eager to see how like it.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Honestly I'm not trying to change your mind, as the other one looks to be great too. But I will offer some counterpoints as I see them. Since each seems to have both pros and cons vs the other, each is probably somewhat better suited to different situations.
1) Any old still-working smart phone with bluetooth can be turned into a dedicated brake controller connection device. The mid-to-long term outlook on the availability and operation of those is just fine. I've got at least two 'deactivated' backups that can be used as such right now, with two more in current use that will inevitably become so.
2) While I agree that intuitively it looks less than desirable, the cantilevered weight seems to be a non issue and it hangs no lower than the plug mount. It's the height and orientation the plug mount that are of concern. Laterally is not a problem, only longitudinally. To keep the plug from being the low point aft of the rear axle of our minivan, I wired it up with laterally mounted plug box* that straps to the cross tube to mitigate this issue.
3) Fair enough, if true. But then again you're only using it a handful of times a year.
I also consider being able to easily transfer it between trailers too, not just tow vehicles, a good flexibility and future proofing measure too. And while it may be easier stolen when in use, I like that it gets removed and secured when not in use rather than left on the exterior of the trailer.
* Regardless of anything else, knowing how this can help with lower clearance vehicles, I have a dozen or so extras if you happen to want one. I ordered one on Amazon, and they sent me a case of them. Similar to this.
In reply to Driven5 :
I get your points, but I've ordered it, and I"m still happy with my decision this morning!! Waiting for it to arrive then I'll be fitting it this weekend.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
...And I see no reason you'd be likely to regret it either. Both ultimately seem like great alternatives to conventional controllers.
Not trying to start something or question your purchase but what makes you think the internal conponents/accelerometers are higher quality? Is there a resource that lists these sorts of things? I hate purchasing electronic components that break due to internal PCB mounted compnent failures so am genuinely interested in how you assessed the internal compnent quality between these two options.
Not sure if I should put this here or start a new thread.
So, something strange related to brakes, but not necessarily brake controllers, reared it's head.
We've already used the camper a bunch this year and have owned it for six years now. Up until the Volvo I always towed it with company cars when I was at Ford, Explorers and the like, and with it only being 2K lb's dry I've never worried about the trailer brakes or a controller. Interestingly I did change a complete hub and brake assembly once after we lost a wheel (Previous owner took it to an RV shop every year for a 'check over' I think they just hit the lugs with uggie duggies and over torqued them many many years in a row and the sheared off. I use a torque wrench on ALL LUGS ALL THE TIME).
Over the last six weeks we've used it three times up North (Traverse City KOA for the Michigan peeps) and left it there between visits. I came down last Friday as I was going to the Indy car race and my wife stayed up with friends and came down with the camper Sunday afternoon so we could get ready for Colorado. She called me as she was leaving, the brakes were acting funny. She mentioned a clunking and juddering to me over the phone. I got her to get the people in the office to check and everything looked OK. She drove home carefully and never notices another issue. When she got home I noticed two things.
Not this one, just an example pic
Well I thought I'd found a root cause with the propane and that's what she was felling as it bumped around and not the brakes. So the camper has sat for a couple of days while we've been giving it a thorough clean out. Last night I dropped it down and I went for a drive around the block. I pull forward , still on the drive, and lightly touch the brakes. Grab, judder, grab, judder. Damn, that feels like electric trailer brakes grabbing. Strange. So I pull off the drive onto the level road and try again, yup still doing it. I grab my wife and get her to try and she confirms that's the feeling/sound she'd felt. So with her still in the car I unplug the seven pin connector and get her to try again. Nothing. Plug it in, nothing. Turn off the car, get out, lock it, unlock, get in try again. Nothing. Go for a drive, nothing.
Any idea why, after six years and conservatively 15-20k miles on it, why have the brakes suddenly decided to try and work at low speed with no brake controller or trailer battery at low speed? Will the controller I've ordered override what the hell ever gremlin has decided to occasionally posses them?
Why is it every problem I have right now with wheeled things appears to be related to electrons?
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Not sure if I should put this here or start a new thread.
So, something strange related to brakes, but not necessarily brake controllers, reared it's head.
We've already used the camper a bunch this year and have owned it for six years now. Up until the Volvo I always towed it with company cars when I was at Ford, Explorers and the like, and with it only being 2K lb's dry I've never worried about the trailer brakes or a controller. Interestingly I did change a complete hub and brake assembly once after we lost a wheel (Previous owner took it to an RV shop every year for a 'check over' I think they just hit the lugs with uggie duggies and over torqued them many many years in a row and the sheared off. I use a torque wrench on ALL LUGS ALL THE TIME).
Over the last six weeks we've used it three times up North (Traverse City KOA for the Michigan peeps) and left it there between visits. I came down last Friday as I was going to the Indy car race and my wife stayed up with friends and came down with the camper Sunday afternoon so we could get ready for Colorado. She called me as she was leaving, the brakes were acting funny. She mentioned a clunking and juddering to me over the phone. I got her to get the people in the office to check and everything looked OK. She drove home carefully and never notices another issue. When she got home I noticed two things.
- First the 20lb propane cyl wasn't properly held down as one of the wing nuts had come off and the bolt had fallen out so it was banging around whenever she braked.
- Second, while I've never had a brake controller, it does obviously have a breakaway switch, something like below. Note, no battery is on the trailer right now as we use shore power there and I'm adding a bigger battery to allow for boon docking. Well the thin cable that goes to the chains/hitch was trapped under the ball.
Well I thought I'd found a root cause with the propane and that's what she was felling as it bumped around and not the brakes. So the camper has sat for a couple of days while we've been giving it a thorough clean out. Last night I dropped it down and I went for a drive around the block. I pull forward , still on the drive, and lightly touch the brakes. Grab, judder, grab, judder. Damn, that feels like electric trailer brakes grabbing. Strange. So I pull off the drive onto the level road and try again, yup still doing it. I grab my wife and get her to try and she confirms that's the feeling/sound she'd felt. So with her still in the car I unplug the seven pin connector and get her to try again. Nothing. Plug it in, nothing. Turn off the car, get out, lock it, unlock, get in try again. Nothing. Go for a drive, nothing.
Any idea why, after six years and conservatively 15-20k miles on it, why have the brakes suddenly decided to try and work at low speed with no brake controller or trailer battery at low speed? Will the controller I've ordered override what the hell ever gremlin has decided to occasionally posses them?
Why is it every problem I have right now with wheeled things appears to be related to electrons?
Sounds like the brake light wire is shorted to the brake circuit somewhere. Either in the fancy adaptor on the car or somewhere in the trailer harness.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:
- Second, while I've never had a brake controller, it does obviously have a breakaway switch, something like below. Note, no battery is on the trailer right now as we use shore power there and I'm adding a bigger battery to allow for boon docking. Well the thin cable that goes to the chains/hitch was trapped under the ball.
Was the cable pulled tight, such that it might have dislodged the plunger? If so, try resetting it. This may be your long-unused brakes trying (and struggling) to 'emergency' activate. I believe these have an internal battery, so that they will work even when there's no battery on the camper.
nocones said:Not trying to start something or question your purchase but what makes you think the internal conponents/accelerometers are higher quality? Is there a resource that lists these sorts of things? I hate purchasing electronic components that break due to internal PCB mounted compnent failures so am genuinely interested in how you assessed the internal compnent quality between these two options.
Fair question. It is a feeling based on reading the info available for both. I could be wrong. But it's also a physically larger unit, that may mean nothing these days. Plus, I still don't like the idea of that long connector with the heavy plug and lead bouncing up and wown on the end of the socket.
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