Which diesel pick-up to last the rest of my life?

Our local city has a 07 Ford, it blew the 6.0 at 14K, so Ford supplied a replacement under warranty, this blew at 22K.

Ford's response, "It sucks to be you" priced the new one at $14,000.

Our city mechanic purchased a Cummins and so far it has been the best truck you could own, it is a F550 with a dump bed and it has way more go in it now. Cost to put in the Cummins....$10,000

curtis73 wrote: A very good point about "underdriving" a diesel... but I disagree with what you say. Most people who buy diesels drive WAY more miles than those who buy gasoline trucks.

Not true. Categorically, more people use them like cars.

Now... I know my view is skewed but I've seen my share of really bad quality defects. Liners that ate rings.. bad turbos.. bad castings.. fuel injectors missing parts.. Glad you guys like'em.. ugh.

ignorant wrote:

curtis73 wrote: A very good point about "underdriving" a diesel... but I disagree with what you say. Most people who buy diesels drive WAY more miles than those who buy gasoline trucks.

Not true. Categorically, more people use them like cars. Now... I know my view is skewed but I've seen my share of really bad quality defects. Liners that ate rings.. bad turbos.. bad castings.. fuel injectors missing parts.. Glad you guys like'em.. ugh.

Sumpin' just don't measure up. You work for them, yet you slam them? And if you cruise the web you hear story after story after story of the Cummins going well over 500K, many over 750K with the engine never being opened?

DrBoost wrote:

ignorant wrote:

curtis73 wrote: A very good point about "underdriving" a diesel... but I disagree with what you say. Most people who buy diesels drive WAY more miles than those who buy gasoline trucks.

Not true. Categorically, more people use them like cars. Now... I know my view is skewed but I've seen my share of really bad quality defects. Liners that ate rings.. bad turbos.. bad castings.. fuel injectors missing parts.. Glad you guys like'em.. ugh.

Sumpin' just don't measure up. You work for them, yet you slam them? And if you cruise the web you hear story after story after story of the Cummins going well over 500K, many over 750K with the engine never being opened?

You never hear the stories I know about.....

They are great engines, I like them a great deal. I just have a skewed view. I'd have a hard time buying one. I also worked in the food industry as an engineer at a large food factory. I don't buy processed food anymore.

And I no longer represent the company.. I work for someone who makes bigger engines that "power freedom"

A very good point about "underdriving" a diesel... but I disagree with what you say. Most people who buy diesels drive WAY more miles than those who buy gasoline trucks. I have a diesel F350 in my shop right now that is a 2008 model with 122k on the ticker.

And THIS is the point I'm trying to make out of all this. Many are sitting there recommending a diesel to potential buyers who won't drive it enough to make the investment worth it. My TDI is driven enough to justify its purchase. The truck, however, is not a daily driver and for me, never will be. Hell... I don't really need the truck at all... which is really the main reason I want to sell it.

Ian F wrote:

A very good point about "underdriving" a diesel... but I disagree with what you say. Most people who buy diesels drive WAY more miles than those who buy gasoline trucks. I have a diesel F350 in my shop right now that is a 2008 model with 122k on the ticker.

And THIS is the point I'm trying to make out of all this. Many are sitting there recommending a diesel to potential buyers who won't drive it enough to make the investment worth it. My TDI is driven enough to justify its purchase. The truck, however, is not a daily driver and for me, never will be. Hell... I don't really need the truck at all... which is really the main reason I want to sell it.

I dug through your old threads and got an idea on price, but how much really?

I drive at least 100K a year but need a late model large 4 door sedan, I have no diesel options

aussiesmg wrote: I drive at least 100K a year but need a late model large 4 door sedan, I have no diesel options

Not even the Mercedes Bluetec diesels?

One of my points is that its very difficult to "underdrive" a diesel these days. A Cummins from the 90s? Sure. A 7.3 Powerstroke, you bet. But my wife's 99 Mercedes diesel will get up to full operating temp in about 2-2.5 miles. My dad's Duramax in about 6 miles. Operating temp is the main factor in that equation, so when you compare it to my 1978 Chevy C20 with a 350 and headers that doesn't get up to temperature in 12 miles in the winter, you can see that the "you-really-have-to-drive-a-diesel" mentality should have gone out the window years ago. I'm saying its insanely relative. Even on a cold winter morning, my wife's mercedes starts pumping out heat in about 1/2 mile, which is far better than my 98 gas F150 can do. I would actually prefer taking HER car on a cold morning if its a short trip because her diesel is more suited to short trips than my truck.

Doesnt the merc have a "hairdryer" heater to help with cold days?

Just saw this on CL:

http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/1361709059.html

MrJoshua wrote: Doesnt the merc have a "hairdryer" heater to help with cold days?

Nope. Just good old fashioned combustion. The only alternative heating it provides is a residual heat climate control that (on command) continues to circulate coolant after the engine is shut off. That way you can turn off the engine and still run the heater.

But there is nothing helping it heat up during cold starts.

curtis73 wrote: One of my points is that its very difficult to "underdrive" a diesel these days. A Cummins from the 90s? Sure. A 7.3 Powerstroke, you bet. But my wife's 99 Mercedes diesel will get up to full operating temp in about 2-2.5 miles. My dad's Duramax in about 6 miles. Operating temp is the main factor in that equation, so when you compare it to my 1978 Chevy C20 with a 350 and headers that doesn't get up to temperature in 12 miles in the winter, you can see that the "you-really-have-to-drive-a-diesel" mentality should have gone out the window years ago. I'm saying its insanely relative. Even on a cold winter morning, my wife's mercedes starts pumping out heat in about 1/2 mile, which is far better than my 98 gas F150 can do. I would actually prefer taking HER car on a cold morning if its a short trip because her diesel is more suited to short trips than my truck.

I've readit 3 times and I don't understand what your saying? Diesel run at lower temps and produce ess heat than a gasoline engine due to the fact that diesel fuel contains less energy per gallon and the combustion process is more efficent so there is less heat available. I still don't know how this relates. The 5.9 has a grid heater in the intake to heat up the incoming air. the 7.3 has the warm up valve on the turbo.. All modern engines have some mechanism to heat them up in a cold start situation. I could tell you stories about cold start testing in red deer in the dead of winter and the oil being so thick that the turbo locked nearly instantly and the need for the grid heater...

When I talk about underdriving a diesel, just reaching operating temp isn't going to do it. The engines need a good load periodically to keep them clean and happy. Again, from personal experience, anyone with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck that daily drives it without pulling regularly will have problems. And the guys I used to work with will get the parts after they are returned from the dealer; which will most likely be denied to pay to the truck company blah blah blah..

edit: I don't mean to be a weiner and I don't want to detract from the motors.. They are great... Just trying to help people with the decision to buy diesel. They are touger to live with than a gasser, sure there are great benefits, but you gotta use the crap outta them to get it.. Cause when you don't, they break.

But I don't "use the crap outta" mine, and it's been great! I mean, 1 lift pump in 355K miles? There was a period of about 2 years that I towed a lot, but now it's a rarity. I'm not arguing per se, I just don't see that as the case with my truck.
But, anyway, to the OP, good luck with your purchase, and let us know what you get.

DrBoost wrote: But I don't "use the crap outta" mine, and it's been great! I mean, 1 lift pump in 355K miles? There was a period of about 2 years that I towed a lot, but now it's a rarity. I'm not arguing per se, I just don't see that as the case with my truck. But, anyway, to the OP, good luck with your purchase, and let us know what you get.

emission controls, you don't have them.. thats the big difference.

Man if only the things were meant for lite loads! I drive 100-150 miles a day but I just have to carry me. It would be awesome to buy a vehicle I know will not be trash after I finish paying for it.

ignorant wrote: I've readit 3 times and I don't understand what your saying? Diesel run at lower temps and produce ess heat than a gasoline engine due to the fact that diesel fuel contains less energy per gallon and the combustion process is more efficent so there is less heat available.

I'm sorry... but it just seems like you really don't know what your talking about. I'm not being confrontational or argumentative, but its the other way around... diesel has MORE energy per gallon than gasoline. The other thing is that higher combustion efficiency means there is MORE heat available. That's the whole point. In making more efficient combustion, you are releasing more of those stored BTUs as heat to be used for piston movement.

Gasoline has 124,000 BTU/gal whereas diesel is about 139,000 BTU/gal.

Sorry, but so far many of your arguments are based on faulty information. I respect you and your informative posts, and I'm not hacking on you... just letting you know that your basis for your discussion is potentially flawed due to the fact that your information on which you based it is incorrect.

245k so far on the wife's mercedes and all we've had to do is replace the radiator. 375k on my dad's Dmax that tows during the summer, but is a daily driver commuter for 5 miles back and forth to work. My LT1 couldn't make it 125k of daily driver status without burning oil, having piston slap, and compression issues.

I spend alot of time in diesels. A gas motor will never come close in torque, longevity or efficiency. If you want to buy a truck to last the rest of your life, diesel is the only way to go. As to which one to go with well..... The Cummins is a great motor, overly built and they last almost forever. But the Dodge truck will fall apart long before the motor gets broke in. The Ford pre 6.0 was reliable but didn't make the most power and I'm not sure how efficient they are. 6.0 and 6.4 have had a ton of common problems, though I've seen some that have had no issues. Luck of the draw. The Ford truck is a nice truck well built and plentiful. The GM Duramax/Allison is a good combination. The trucks are well built. The Duramax started the Horsepower wars in the diesel community. Early motors were rated at 310/520 and later models were 365/650. The Allison behind a stock motor will last but if you turn up the power make sure you build the tranny to match. I had an 06' GMC Duramax/Allison and I averaged 21-22 on the HWY and 17-18 around town. I was running larger wheels and tires and it hurt fuel economy compared to stock. The 06' went to a 6 speed Allison. I've seen 06' crew cab, 4x4, duramax/allison with sub 100k miles go in the $20-24k range.

I prefer the Duramax but may look at the Ford after the 6.7 comes out if it proves reliable.

I should also throw in... if you want one to last the rest of your life, go with pre-08 or wait several years until they iron out the details. Particulate scrubbers, Urea injection, special cats... not only are they a potential maintenance nightmare, but they are destroying MPG.

My dad's 04 Dmax gets 23+ on the highway empty. His 09 gets 16. Big difference. Its just like 1972 all over again. Give it a while to work out the kinks or just buy a good 07 model and be done.

thedude wrote: Hilux edit: duh

+1...duh.

curtis73 wrote: In making more efficient combustion, you are releasing more of those stored BTUs as heat to be used for piston movement.

true.. and 105kbtu for gasoline @ ~20% eff is like 80kbtu waste per gallon

135kbtu for diesel @ ~40% eff is like 81kbtu waste per gallon

Ok so I'm a tard.

curtis73 wrote: Particulate scrubbers, Urea injection, special cats... not only are they a potential maintenance nightmare, but they are destroying MPG.

the thing that destroyed MPG in the 5.9 was the manufacturers horsepower race. HP has gone from ~140-150(non intercooled) to 300+ while torque has gone from the 400 ft-lb range to the 600 ft-lb range. So you've increased HP by 100% but only torque by 50%, in very simple terms, by burning more fuel...

Urea injection actually is helping MPG go back up from the particulate traps.... I can go into detail on why and how ... but this is all you need to know, It frees up the turbo match. Urea injection is a good thing for diesels.

looking at a 2006 F250 w / 6.0 powerstroke. Any advise would be useful, thanks.

Rayburn wrote: looking at a 2006 F250 w / 6.0 powerstroke. Any advise would be useful, thanks.

Do not buy. Run away.

Nice necro-thread revival.

Have a nice day.

Edit: berkeleying necroposting.....

JFX001 wrote: I'd say a 2001 or earlier Ford F-250 CC shortbed. 7.3 Powerstroke.

Was 2001 when they went to front IRS on the F250's?

The good super duty diesels to have, that will last nearly forever are the 7.3L 4x4 with solid axles.

Our 99 is only a standard cab F250, but it has 80k on it and we expect it to last probably another 2-3 decades.