I wouldn't touch the Fiesta for reasons I stated in your past thread.
A BRZ/FRS is a fun car, but also not the most reliable car. I wouldn't have one a s a primary driver. I sold mine here and the engine failed for the next owner. And that was its 2nd engine and only had ~30k miles on it.
A 318ti would be a fun not-a-primary-car. But if I had to take one of the cars you mentioned on track, it would be my top choice.
+1 to everything SKJSS said.
I don't know what the appliance grade track toy of choice is right now, but I'd have to imagine something like a Mazda 3 or a base Civic is a great option.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Interesting that Saab was brought up. I had found this but wasn't sure if I should recommend it...but here it goes. If you are not familiar with the Saab 9-3 the ones of this era were the GM ownership years. GM took this Saab turbo engine and dropped it in the Cobalt to make the Colbalt SS. These 9-3s with manual trans are often refered to as the 9-3SS. Handsome, European interiors and road manners. I had one briefly with manual trans that I bought as a salvage car and rebuilt it to sell. It was a fun car and if I could have justified it, I would have kept it.
I was looking online for anything manual trans since I suspect that is your #1 requirement when I came across this car.
2008 w/116k @ $5.9k
That site also shows that this dealership has had the car since 9-13-23 or 6 months. Pricing started at $8k. I am not surprised it has not sold. The general public does not buy manual trans cars. Further more, sedan manual trans cars from a discontinued brand. But, you will be pleasently surprised by the cars capabilites.
Searching the vin brought me to another listing fro this car that includes the Carfax
Started life in Metro Detroit (but a swanky suburb) where it stayed for 3 years. My guess is it was a lease. Under the then new GM ownership, people in the car business with access to employee leases jumped on a lot of Saabs. Partially because the terms were attractive but also because they were something new offered to them. In that ownership, the car took a hit according to Carfax but this would have then still been a very expensive car and the work would have been proper, insurance paid repair so not real concern here.
The trunk lid has a CarMax sticker. My guess is after the 3 year lease this nice, clean car made its way to Carmax. That's good. Carmax typically doesn't sell crap cars. They also dont sell them the cheapest to the worst people (like low credit customers.) Therefore, owner #2 was likley able to afford maintaining the car. Another minor front hit under this ownership. Still an expensive car and still likely proper repair work paid by insurance. It's good to see that the owner kept the car another 3 years after the accident.
When the 2nd owner traded in the car, it went to auction. With 2 knocks on its record and a forgotten brand, with a manual, it didn't bring a whole lot of money. I see the current dealership's website says they speak Russian and Lithuanian. I also see from the google vin search that they marketed the car to international buyers. This is probably a big part of their business model.
But, all in, I don't see this as a bad example of a manual trans Saab. The current dealer just bought it auction. They have probably done nothing to it. It likely came to them as a pretty good car but just not that known to the public or desired by the public.
This one is just fwd, not awd.
In reply to bbbbRASS :
Mark me down as interested - nobody gets their dream car as a first car and this seems like a great compromise, although parts costs do scare me. I will check with my parents (rwd newer bmw might not fly, but it should), and see what they say. I'm not entirely sure but I am definitely interested.
Anyone here who knows E92s wanna weigh in? These issues seem minor but I'm not sure about the cost of parts.
Who's nearby that could come look at it? I could send them an email.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Thanks! I liked the e36 I drove and I can't imagine the smaller 318ti being any worsem it certainly wasn't an frs, but it might be a good compromise since those engines are fairly bulletproof.
You're right - 1.5k for that level of modding is pretty good.
I wish I could quantify the odds of an FR-S engine failure to help me determine the risk. Lol
In reply to Evanuel9 :
What specific parts cost scare you?
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Thank you! Yeah if I added 4k I could afford the car but no gas or maintenance haha. Not much good it would do sitting in the garage.
Can you quantify it a bit more. I'm trying to convince myself that it's a bad idea. What is likely to go wrong buying a bottom of the barrel FiST or FR-S, or the really nice 318ti?
I would be quite happy with those - I loved the fit I drove and the civic wasn't too far behind. But I am trying my best to maximize my available budget lol
In reply to ojannen :
Is the high highway rpm a longevity issue or more of an annoyance? The really nice autocross one claims to have a real LSD - is that less bad than a welded diff?
Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated
I did find a really clean 318is listed for 6000 IIRC. It think it's still for sale. How does driving compare to the 325 which I've driven, or the 318ti which seems smaller and sportier?
The one in KC does look nice but only 1500 more for the mods on the other seems like a good deal?
I had a 2011 AWD E92, albeit with an auto trans, and loved it. VERY capable suspension and power from the N52 is adequate. Quick, but not stellar. The 330 variants had even more power and the fact it's a manual is super sweet. Evidently the RWD ones came with a taller final drive so acceleration isn't on par with an AWD version. Honestly even with it's issues if I were in the market I'd seriously consider that 330i...
Slippery said:
In reply to Evanuel9 :
What specific parts cost scare you?
all of them. Oh, you weren't asking me were you?
prodarwin said:
I don't know what the appliance grade track toy of choice is right now, but I'd have to imagine something like a Mazda 3 or a base Civic is a great option.
I hate to say this out loud but... Honda Fit (or any of the other small b-spec size cars). You really can't get much cheaper in cost of ownership, cost of consumables and handling. There are newer options, different options like the MAzda 2, the rio/accent etc. But all of them are comparable in costs and abilities.
In reply to John Welsh :
There's no link on the first one - what was it.
You're absolutely right, the best car is one that doesn't break down. But the question is what is the likelihood of a breakdown and how ctastrophic will it be. If there's a high chance of engine failure that can only be discovered through trial by fire - that's scary. If there's a chance of something not essential breaking that I can fix, that's less scary to me.
I have a broad definition of cool - I consider a 30 year old, slow, trailing arm bmw hatch cool. I consider a Honda fit and mazda2 cool, I consider a fiesta St cool. It's less cool factor and more fun to drive factor
In reply to Mndsm :
Wish I could get a booster. The biggest hindrance is my parental requirement of 4 seats. If it weren't I could just get a Miata which I love more than any car on this list, and be done with it.
In reply to bobzilla :
I haven't made up my mind - which is why I'm posting. If I had I would've already bought an frs lol. And I'm being convinced, slowly, not to.
But I will say a lot of the logic I'm seeing on here is "it's cheap and cool or sporty or *insert other positive attribute* therefore it must be bad" whereas what im looking for is "there is probably x problem that will account for the price discount" or "youre likely to have x go wrong, which will cost money."
Plus I am budgeting in some cost for maintenance, mods, or repairs
Hopefully some past owners chime in?
In reply to Jerry :
How was it? Catastrophic failure as detailed in this thread?
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
Thank you!!! At that kind of miles what are the big problems. I've seen a couple of comments that cheaper/higher mile FiSTs are not worth it but I haven't seen any explanation of what or why?
The one for 7950 has a link to the one for 10. Would you mind reposting it?
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
Now that is certainly interesting. I'd have to test drive one but they seem cool.
In reply to prodarwin :
Does the rollover risk apply even to the ST?
On the FRS - it seems like everyone and their mother has had an engine fail no matter what they do to it? How do people own and daily these cars? It just seems hard for me to believe a modern Japanese car has such an immense susceptibility to catastrophic engine failure.
What would make it not a good primary car for the 318ti. As far as I can tell it's one of bmws most reliable engines, it's a hatch so decently practical, decent gas mileage, and fun
The other appliance grade toys are on the list, but my main focus is daily driver fun because track will be a once a month even at most. 90% of driving will be street.
In reply to John Welsh :
Wow I did not know this - a cobalt SS with swedish build quality and possibly AWD. How would it compare to the subcompacts or compact sedans on this list? It's likely heavier and more isolated but more powerful?
Could you repost the link - it just takes me to the cargurus search page.
In reply to Slippery :
I can't remember the specifics, I'll look later, but I remember when I first looked at the e90 I googled "common e90 issues" and then googled what the parts to fix it cost and I was shocked.
In reply to bobzilla :
Of course - I loved the fit and mazda2 even more. They are absolutely in the running but when I looked at how cheap I could get some of these other cars I kind of jumped on that. But if these other cars are a bad idea they would be near the top of the list if I compromise
In reply to John Welsh :
Oh ok, thanks. I still don't love the sentra in comparison to some of the other cars but I will consider it.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Purchase is one thing. Insurance, especially when young, is killer. Then you've got tire costs, brakes, maintenance, fuel... ALL of that is much much higher on any of those cars you mentioned. If you seriously want to get on track, run autox etc you need something you can afford to keep on the road, keep reliable and not worry about a large repair or eating a set of expensive tires.
But I was young and knew better once as well. I get it.
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to prodarwin :
Does the rollover risk apply even to the ST?
Absolutely. They have rolled in autocross events, they just haven't been banned by SCCA.
In reply to bobzilla :
So for insurance, my parents are, very gratefully, covering it. The rest of it in terms of consumables at least seems like smaller cars would give me a leg up on consumables costs. Maintenance and parts I definitely get on a performance car vs a smaller compact econobox. If track time is going to be 10% or less of my driving (maybe once a month or less track and once a month autox) does that chabge the calculus? Especially considering in 6 months I probably won't have track time because I'll be a college freshman trying to figure out time management and life skills in a STEM degree
It seems like the FRS is an absolute coin flip on track. Either I do all the mods and it does on my first track day, or it survived perfectly fine. I'm not sure that I like the odds of a coin flip so that might be out. But the other two don't seem necessarily as bad. The FiST might be a problem with the rollover issues, but I probably won't be running true track or 200TW tires. The 318ti is slow but I don't really see any reliability problems or other downsides. And it's same power to weight as a Fit
