Does resale value not matter? Does respect for a maker because they built a cool car not matter? Does lots of chatter exposing people who didn't previously know about a car model not matter? Seriously, saying we have no right to talk about a car because we don't own one is silly. The entire car magazine industry is based on reading about cars we don't own. This entire board is based on talking about cars other members own.
In reply to z31maniac:
Honestly, we bought the Fit as a commuter 3-years ago and have put 100,000-miles on it so far. The mileage with it is so much better than the minivan we had before that the difference in fuel costs paid for the payments. We also had a significant downpayment, and plan on keeping the car in the family until rust finally consumes it. (No, it's not rusty, but I'm a realist - its a Honda, and we live in the rust-belt.)
Yes, I'd LOVE an FRS! But I'm not comfortable tying up that much of our finances for a car that really fits my "wants" more than our "needs".
Uh oh.... I think I'm starting to sound like my father. 
but it's even dumber to rack up the miles.
This I've never understood. I buy my cars to drive, whether its to work or the store or just for fun. If I worried about the miles I put on a car I'd walk (which would mean I'd have to move into town closer to conveniences 
) or stay home. Of course, I also keep cars way too long, they usually aren't worth much by the time I get rid of one for a new(er) one. Just put 400 miles on my RX8 this week and still have the weekend to go.
Meh
I've not really paid much attention to these new models. I like the idea of a smallish RWD sporty affordable car, but I am not looking to buy a new car. I just bought my WRX last fall. The BRZFRS looks better, but doesn't have a real back seat or rear doors. I get nearly 300 hp instead of 200 hp and AWD. If I want to drive a smaller car than the WRX I have two to choose from parked on either side of the WRX in the garage.
I guess for me, the car is just not one that fits into what I want at this time. I wouldn't trade the mazdaspeed miata for one because sometimes you gotta have a convertible. I wouldn't trade the Mini for one - no explanation required. I wouldn't trade the WRX for one because I just bought that sucker last fall.
wlkelley3 wrote:but it's even dumber to rack up the miles.This I've never understood. I buy my cars to drive, whether its to work or the store or just for fun. If I worried about the miles I put on a car I'd walk (which would mean I'd have to move into town closer to conveniences
I can understand where you're coming from, a lot depends on the type of driving you're doing. I have a 35 mile commute (each way), and I'd the trip averages about 80 minutes each way. It's a combination of relatively light traffic on back roads and then brutal stop-and go traffic for about 15 miles. The trip home is the exact opposite. Occasionally I take the long way which has some great scenery and great roads, but takes at least 20 min longer (even moving at a good clip). When I'm already in a car for 2-3 hours a day, I really don't feel like losing another 20 min, no matter how great the driving is. Once in a while, it's a great diversion and refreshing, but I wouldn't take the long way more than once a week.
I've thought about how a FR-S/BRZ would be on this commute, and I'm torn. I really can't see myself ordering one with an automatic, but it's probably the best choice for my commute. A good chunk of the highway stop/go is up and down hills, which is no fun with a manual and little low-end torque. I've given it a lot of thought and an appliance probably makes the most sense for my commute, both from a sanity perspective and a cost perspective. A Prius would probably be the cheapest car to operate, and the money I'd save in gas could go towards some kind of fun car that I could use occasionally. If I wanted to take it one day a week for the commute to change things up, then I could.
When I was younger, I took a road trip just about every weekend, and enjoyed the open road and no traffic. Now that my commute is the majority of my driving, my opinion has changed 
I was over at the vehicle processing facility yesterday and got my first up close and personal look at a BRZ. It is MUCH better looking in person than in photos. The one I saw was dark gun metal grey with 8 spoke alum wheels.
When I first saw it I taught it was a LFH. Then my mind was thinking no but what is it? My next thought was a new revamped GTR of some sort? It was only when I got up close did I figure it out.
I got passed by one that appeared to be on a test drive yesterday. Didn't realize what it was until it was in front of me and then it bailed at the next exit where a bunch of dealers are located.
If I was in the market, I would probably test drive one. I may test drive one at some point anyway. I just don't think it's $20k more car than my Miata. Add potential for 1st year issues and probable markup or only having models with every price and/or profit increasing extra included and I'd wait for next years model if I was in the market.
If I had to spend $26k on a car today, I'd probably get a used 2011 Mustang GT. Currently having V-8 withdrawal symptoms.
I'm planning on buying one either next year or the year after. It's a bit long term I know but I just sent the wife back to school, which I am going to attempt to pay for out of pocket to avoid loans for her, and I want to see if a factory forced induction model appears. I'd also like to see the aftermarket develop a little bit. I tend to drive cars for 200k+ miles before I need to get rid of them and really wouldn't mind having a new car.
I really hope that they sell scads of these things because it would be a shame to have another 20 year period where there is only one legitimate decently priced sports car. That and I know my fellow GRMrs wouldn't mind having a bunch of used ones for sale.
I would buy one now except there is no way I can afford a car payment right now. Give me a year or two to get my finances in order and then if I'm able I'd be all over one. Better mileage and more horses than my current Subaru, I can deal with two less driven wheels. I want one.
I think Alpha's point is that while we like to complain about new car offerings (myself included), when a car maker does something risky (much less risky to release another cross over), it appears (for what EVER reason) we stare at our feet.
If these cars fall flat, I can't imagine another mass market car company ever trying this again.
I'll probably buy one within 2-3 years. Depends on just how good the ND Miata is.
Jeff wrote: I think Alpha's point is that while we like to complain about new car offerings (myself included), when a car maker does something risky (much less risky to release another cross over), it appears (for what EVER reason) we stare at our feet. If these cars fall flat, I can't imagine another mass market car company ever trying this again.
That's a good point, but I don't think even Subaru / Toyota expect it to be mass market - I had read somewhere the sales goal is expected to be in the 5 - 8000 range for the first year. It's a "halo car" for both Scion and to a lesser extent Subaru. It gets people in the showrooms, and gets them excited about "the brand"
I buy new cars. I drive for work and want the assurance of a warranty, and don't want the downtime when things break. The good cars (eg. Mini) don't depreciate that much anyway, so WTF.
I also drive 15 - 20K work related miles each year. Thanks to the generosity of the US tax code I get $0.55 / mile for doing it - it makes the gas, payments and tires and i like it that way.
I'm financially secure, I'll be dead in 40 years and i want a sporty, reasonably priced car. All those reasons directed me to my last purchase (a WRX) and in a year or so I'll look at the BRZ. If the kids can fit in the back for the short drive to school , I'll probably jump.
The only thing that makes me hesitate is that in the past, so many promising cars have either failed to deliver on track, or have been classed uncompetitively by the SCCA. I'd like some real world feedback before I make my choice.
Jeff wrote: I think Alpha's point is that while we like to complain about new car offerings (myself included), when a car maker does something risky (much less risky to release another cross over), it appears (for what EVER reason) we stare at our feet. If these cars fall flat, I can't imagine another mass market car company ever trying this again.
I do understand that, but I think the error is in expecting that the readers of this magazine are somehow responsible/obligated to buy this car. Few of those "man I wish they made more affordable RWD sports cars" threads in the past few years have included a "I would buy one of the showroom floor the first day they start selling them" statement. Usually it goes more like, "I wish there were more affordable RWD sports cars so I could buy them off lease and make them into track/autocross cars."
Again, there are 50,000 people in the SCCA, Subaru and Toyota know damn well they can't make a car for enthusiasts and expect it to sell, and they have planned accordingly.
You'll notice in this commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVKcB1GpIVY That there are no guys in floppy hats standing around parking lots, nor does this appear to be Nelson Ledges.
Toyota and Subaru are big boys, and I'm sure that they did a lot of market research to determine that this thing has got a good chance at making money.
I'm sure there are other books, but this: http://www.amazon.com/All-Corvettes-Are-James-Schefter/dp/0671685015 shows well how the R & D decisions of a modern automaker are constrained by market information.
I think it has a good chance. It sounds pretty well executed. Mazda sold 1,000,000 NA/NB Miatas. I've always lamented that there wasn't a hardtop. If I were in the market I'd get the Subaru. Plus All Corvettes Are Red is required car nut reading.
I just can't believe the space this overweight, underpowered, overpriced car is getting around the world and laugh at all the suggestions of it being perfect BUT "I would change ...."
FWIW, I loathe FWD.
ShadowSix wrote: Toyota and Subaru are big boys, and I'm sure that they did a lot of market research to determine that this thing has got a good chance at making money.
Cars can be marketed at a loss if the wash increases brand recognition and hence profit on other lines.
Kram wrote: I just can't believe the space this overweight, underpowered, overpriced car is getting around the world and laugh at all the suggestions of it being perfect BUT "I would change ...."
??? What does FWD have to do with this?
Kram wrote: I just can't believe the space this overweight, underpowered, overpriced car is getting around the world and laugh at all the suggestions of it being perfect BUT "I would change ...."
Of which car are you speaking? Of all of the descriptors you've listed the only one that may be true is "underpowered." 'Course, that's only a deterrent to bad drivers 
There is a good chance I would buy one if I didn't already own an S2000. The hard part would be getting me to buy one new instead of waiting 12-18 months.
ShadowSix wrote: You'll notice in this commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVKcB1GpIVY That there are no guys in floppy hats standing around parking lots, nor does this appear to be Nelson Ledges.
I guess you are right but ...damn if the potholes in the first few seconds wouldn't have reminded you of the smoothest part of Nelson Ledges.
Also - for posterity - were I in the market for a new car - these two, and the 128i would be the only cars on the list and since the 128 is in a diff price bracket entirely they only need to be half decent to get me to buy one. Probably the Subaru because the local Toyota dealer is a E36 M3 berkeleying ass hammer.
Kram wrote: I just can't believe the space this overweight, underpowered, overpriced car is getting around the world and laugh at all the suggestions of it being perfect BUT "I would change ...."
I think you may have posted in the wrong thread? Where does FWD come into play?
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Kram wrote: I just can't believe the space this overweight, underpowered, overpriced car is getting around the world and laugh at all the suggestions of it being perfect BUT "I would change ...."I think you may have posted in the wrong thread? Where does FWD come into play?
And overweight? For one of the lightest new cars from mainstream manufacturers? (Ie, not Lotus.)
dculberson wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:And overweight? For one of the lightest new cars from mainstream manufacturers? (Ie, not Lotus.)Kram wrote: I just can't believe the space this overweight, underpowered, overpriced car is getting around the world and laugh at all the suggestions of it being perfect BUT "I would change ...."I think you may have posted in the wrong thread? Where does FWD come into play?
Trolls are fun!
ShadowSix wrote: I do understand that, but I think the error is in expecting that the readers of this magazine are somehow responsible/obligated to buy this car. Few of those "man I wish they made more affordable RWD sports cars" threads in the past few years have included a "I would buy one of the showroom floor the first day they start selling them" statement. Usually it goes more like, "I wish there were more affordable RWD sports cars so I could buy them off lease and make them into track/autocross cars."
Why? So it's ok to rail on the industry for making a car that you have no intention of buying new? Or that you hope is a marketing success to start, but a failure shortly so that you can buy one used?
Toyota and Subaru are really taking a risk here. If it doesn't pan out, don't expect the small RWD market to get any bigger anytime soon. In the last 20 years, the Miata arrived, the RX left, the S2000 came and left, the MR came and left, the Solstace twins came and left. It seems to go on and on.
If nobody leases or buys them off the lot, how does anyone expect to get one used?
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