Donebrokeit
Donebrokeit Reader
10/21/11 10:42 a.m.

I have talked to a person who has a F500 for sale the seller (owner has passed away) knows little of the car but seems to be aware of power sports in general, but the seller is some what short on details.

The car seems to be some what of a basket case the car is missing some hardware (nuts and bolts) and has " wiring issues". The seller seems to think the car has the Rotax engine and might be a phantom chassis. This is my first venture in open wheel car so I am some what new to this.

With this information what would something like this be worth? Besides looking from crash damage what else should I be looking for?

Thanks Paul B

motomoron
motomoron HalfDork
10/21/11 11:42 a.m.

The main venue is SCCA club and national racing. I race a D sports racer w/ the SCCA Washington DC region and find the organization to excellent. SCCA, relative to other sanctioning bodies is more bound to tradition and rules - the GCR (General Competition Rules) is the holy writ and it's running close to 800 pages now. The classing structure is huge, and crazy, though if you're keen to race a Pinto, a bug-eye Sprite, or anything without fenders they're your people.

As for F500s. I see them every race weekend. In the MARRS series they're run with the formula vee cars generally, although at the final round this season the 500s were tossed into the car salad that is the "Wings and Things" group. For comparative laptimes, I was doing 1'18's down to 1'17"s in the 15 minute qualifying session which was 11 laps for me. I started P1, and almost lapped one of the 500s. The other was faster.

If you have wheel to wheel experience and are a good mechanic/tuner/light fabricator, ~and~ the car is a very good deal it may be worthwhile. But bear in mind that an unknown race car that's been sitting can hid large unpleasant secrets. For example, I learned that the fuel system in my (purchased amazingly cheaply) Radical, which worked fine at Summit Point, couldn't keep up on the much larger, faster full circuit at VIR. This was discovered at the Grassroots Motorsports Ultimate Track Car Challenge and cost me 600 miles of towing, entry fees, hotel, and abusing a fresh set of Hoosiers driving around off-line, in the infield, and doing laps of the perimeter road between sessions trying to diagnose the problem.

I'd add up the cost of the car plus the cost of freshening the engine, refastening the chassis w/ new hardware, new harnesses, re-certifying the fire bottle, verifying that the fuel cell foam hasn't turned to crud, and the value of your time to sort the car out to then point where you're able to concentrate on driving this atomic death toboggan rather than thrashing to make it to the grid. If this number is enough lower than what you'd be willing to buy an F500 for at the prevailing prices, go for it.

I ask myself a qualifying question when deals like this pop up too; "Would I make a deliberate choice to go race a whatever if this perceived great deal wasn't in front of me?"

In most cases it's cheaper to buy a well sorted race car that's ready to race, particularly at the end of the season from someone who's motivated to become an ex-racer. Set up notes, spares kit, everything turn key. There's value there.

One thing to consider if you don't mind a project is the move afoot for F600. Lose the unobtainium 2 stroke motor and install a 600cc sportbike engine. Seems like a great idea to me as a way to make what's a bit of a dinosaur class have more modern relevance. Sort of like what they're doing w/ F1000 or FB, which is a 1000cc bike engine in a formula continental, and formula fit, w/ a formula Ford converted with a Honda Fit engine that comes from Honda Motorsports.

A useful place to look is:

F500 people geek out here.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
10/21/11 11:57 a.m.

The short discourse:

Snomobile engines sound awful.

The new F600 with 600cc sport bike engines is something I am watching closely because they sound and act like race cars. If support goes that way I might be up for that.

As it stands I am running next season in a BMWCCA/NASA sedan and shopping for a good price on an SRF.

Joshua
Joshua HalfDork
10/21/11 12:32 p.m.

I have a line on a possible good buy for an F500 as well. If I were to buy it I would convert it to F600, no idea of what it costs though since f500.org is a ghost town.

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
10/21/11 1:28 p.m.

The most important thing to check when looking at a basket case F500 car is the age of the chassis and under what rules it was constructed. They changed the wheelbase (feet must be behind the front axle) and roll hoop diameter sometime during the '90's. An older car can be a good auto-x car, but may not be GCR legal anymore.

A brand new car from a known builder runs in the mid teens. A good used car with current log book is usually well under $10K. Basket cases rarely go much above a grand or so.

The 2 stroke engine sounds like azz, but they are stone simple and cheap to rebuild.

formula500.org is more active and where the f500 forums from formulacarnews.com were moved to. The F600 section there is also pretty active.

fasted58
fasted58 SuperDork
10/22/11 2:12 a.m.

Results from F500 SCCA Runoffs including chassis make:

http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=3128&cid=50843

maybe that can help you gauge whether you have a national or regional caliber car

2011 SCCA GCR rules:

http://cms.scca.com/documents/2011%20Tech/2011%20GCR-printed%20version.pdf

F500 is page 251

fasted58
fasted58 SuperDork
10/22/11 2:46 a.m.

Never raced one but I learned they could be fun. At a Nelson Ledges Regional back in the 90s I was paddocked next to a newbie husband/ wife team who was having trouble even keeping up w/ the field. After a once over I changed the plugs out... luckily had an exact new set still in the toolbox from my old D Sport Suzuki GT-750 two-stroke engine. That night cleaned and treated the K&Ns that looked like they were never serviced. Next day they kicked butt and won class... they woulda popped champagne if they had it.

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