Whoa, hold the hyperbole (early Viper content)

In reply to stanger_missle:

Hmmm Viper Kart

I instruct the viper club up here and I've been super impressed with the quality of people in the club, it's the best car club that I deal with. They're eager for the instruction and egos are surprisingly a non factor, a good mixture of colorful but humble. Kinda makes me want one just for the club. Everyone acts like the cars are monsters, at least the ones I've been in are pretty docile, especially at low rpm. Anything with that much tire under it is gonna be far from smooth when it comes to transitioning to and from having traction, drive accordingly and they're plenty predictable.

in many ways I think that a few people have managed to ruin the car's perception for everyone.

For some reason, I hate asking this.

I'd have to drive it in the rain. The weather here is such that I might be fine with summer tires year round, but I can't do without tread. During the summer especially, we get severe rain several times a week.

The thing that gives me pause is that, while I've driven cars completely devoid of any electronic driver's aids, they've all had relatively narrow tires, with a section width between 185 and 215. They've also had low horsepower - between 66 and 130.

While my Samurai, on the weekend I bought it, told me I was driving it beyond conditions through small increases in engine note when I had the worn, mismatched tires it came with at 65 on a wet interstate, I fear the Viper might not have anything to say to me other than "GUARD RAIL!" when I'm overdoing it in the rain.

You're doing 70 on the interstate, you hit a puddle of standing water. Everything I've owned would either blink a traction control light, or gain a few revs, telling me to back off and not try to change direction for a moment.

What would a Viper do?

In my experience, with wide tires, if they've got a tread pattern that clears water well, you'll generally start to feel the drag from pushing the big front tires through a puddle before you start to float enough to noticeably lose grip.

Mike wrote: For some reason, I hate asking this. I'd have to drive it in the rain. The weather here is such that I might be fine with summer tires year round, but I can't do without tread. During the summer especially, we get severe rain several times a week. The thing that gives me pause is that, while I've driven cars completely devoid of any electronic driver's aids, they've all had relatively narrow tires, with a section width between 185 and 215. They've also had low horsepower - between 66 and 130. While my Samurai, on the weekend I bought it, told me I was driving it beyond conditions through small increases in engine note when I had the worn, mismatched tires it came with at 65 on a wet interstate, I fear the Viper might not have anything to say to me other than "GUARD RAIL!" when I'm overdoing it in the rain. You're doing 70 on the interstate, you hit a puddle of standing water. Everything I've owned would either blink a traction control light, or gain a few revs, telling me to back off and not try to change direction for a moment. What would a Viper do?

I've never driven a Viper but I have driven a bunch of high HP cars with wide tires and no electronic nannies. I've also driven a bunch of cars with crappy tires in adverse conditions and they're both the same (although things happen faster with the high HP cars) You just have to be aware of what you've got for traction and drive accordingly.

If you run a Viper into a puddle at speed with your foot buried in the throttle it's going to spin the tires. What happens after that is up to you. Chances are you're going to want to just drive slower when it rains so that you don't need to be on edge through your whole commute.

I seem to recall that the early Vipers had a reputation for having poor fitting leaky tops. If that's correct that would bother me more than the driveability stuff.

Mike wrote: For some reason, I hate asking this. I'd have to drive it in the rain. The weather here is such that I might be fine with summer tires year round, but I can't do without tread. During the summer especially, we get severe rain several times a week. The thing that gives me pause is that, while I've driven cars completely devoid of any electronic driver's aids, they've all had relatively narrow tires, with a section width between 185 and 215. They've also had low horsepower - between 66 and 130. While my Samurai, on the weekend I bought it, told me I was driving it beyond conditions through small increases in engine note when I had the worn, mismatched tires it came with at 65 on a wet interstate, I fear the Viper might not have anything to say to me other than "GUARD RAIL!" when I'm overdoing it in the rain. You're doing 70 on the interstate, you hit a puddle of standing water. Everything I've owned would either blink a traction control light, or gain a few revs, telling me to back off and not try to change direction for a moment. What would a Viper do?

that might be part of the issue. The V10 in the viper is a torque monster, but it's not too happy to rev. I would think that before it started to raise engine note from the rears slipping in standing water, you might already be looking at that guardrail closer than you may want to.

rslifkin wrote: In my experience, with wide tires, if they've got a tread pattern that clears water well, you'll generally start to feel the drag from pushing the big front tires through a puddle before you start to float enough to noticeably lose grip.

How many Viper drivers are replacing their tires every couple years, though? As alluded to upthread, how well is a 15 year old car going to do in the rain when it is still on the factory rubber because "it's still got treads so it's good".

New UHP rubber feels godlike in the rain. Old UHP rubber is scary.

All of the replies are appreciated. I should probably footnote, before it comes up, that I don't spend all of my time on the interstate trying to ride the razor's edge between hydroplaning and not.

In reply to APEowner:

I'm not too worried about the leaky top. I've seen some supposed fixes, and I think I could rig something. I've lived with a bikini top on the Samurai for a while, and it wasn't too bad, even in winter. I don't mind getting a little wet or cold. It's the interior materials I'd worry about.

stanger_missle wrote: So, given the nature of the Viper, the general public's driving skills and the cost of replacement front body work, would it be looked down upon to buy a Viper that was "totalled" and just run it without fixing the body? Inquiring minds want to know EDIT: Like this one. Fix it just enough to be road legal?

Damn you.

Here, let me show you what your post made me find.

$775. Yeah, it looks bad, but it also appears to mostly be cosmetic and cooling module. Okay, hood is wracked, but I'd ziptie that E36 M3 like it was an Lancer Evolution bumper.

The bottom line is that every asshat in America assumes they are the best driver ever without the faintest idea of what that means.

They wouldn't advocate untrained helicopter pilots but think a super car is no big deal.

So... They learn the hard way.

Knurled wrote:

rslifkin wrote: In my experience, with wide tires, if they've got a tread pattern that clears water well, you'll generally start to feel the drag from pushing the big front tires through a puddle before you start to float enough to noticeably lose grip.

How many Viper drivers are replacing their tires every couple years, though? As alluded to upthread, how well is a 15 year old car going to do in the rain when it is still on the factory rubber because "it's still got treads so it's good". New UHP rubber feels godlike in the rain. Old UHP rubber is scary.

because of a lack of camber change and that I rotate, the rubber on my Disco still has plenty of tread left after 3 years and 20000 miles. It's getting replaced this fall. Rubber is the ONLY thing keeping you on the road, I never understood why people don't treat it better