Why a Flex fuel Prius?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

MrChaos said:

is e85 more stable long term than normal gas?

 

No, to the point that you really want to buy E85 from a place that moves a lot of it.  Or in drums direct from supplier, if you're that serious. (Although that is usually crazy expensive, like $70+ for a five gallon drum)

I also live where it tends to be humid, which is the real problem.   Alcohol loves to absorb moisture from the air.

OTOH, E85 is generally about the same price as 87 here, so there is no real financial incentive to use it unless you are feeding a highly turbocharged car, where it is competing against C16 for price.

A bit of a misconception.  Alcohol can absorb moisture from the atmosphere, but the amount of atmospheric air that interacts with the fuel in your tank is next to zero.

Plus, alcohol is miscible with water, so it will hold a LOT more water in harmless suspension than gasoline (which holds basically zero).  In order for (using rough math) E15 to become a problem with water, a 20 gallon tank would have to absorb over one cup (8 oz) of water before water is a problem.

Remember, back in the day if we had a wee bit of water in the gasoline we would intentionally add alcohol (gas dry) to dissolve and suspend the water so it can harmlessly go through the system.

Well said.  Most people have experienced how much smoother and more power cars have on a rainy day. A little bit of water helps combustion.  
  If you have an older 30'- 40's - early 50's car chances are you see that little glass bowl designed to show the owner how much water was in the gas he bought. It usually had a thumb screw  so when there was too much water he could remove the bowl and dump out the water. 
   Then they found out that a little water helps combustion  and did away with the glass bowl. 

In reply to frenchyd :

THE biggest reason the Ethanol bill is flawed is that it's grain specific.  It would be far, far, far better to be source neutral, so that other plants can be used- like sugar cane or sugar beets- both of which have waste materials that are perfect for ethanol creation.  But no, we have a corn lobby write the bill, and how that impacts what cars are made, too.

Heck, we throw away enough fruit that could easily have been fermented and then distilled that it would make a difference.

In reply to alfadriver :

Much agreed.  I'm also a bit jaded because I love diesel, and the fact that sugar-producing plants can only produce about 2-8% of their mass into Ethanol, while oil feedstocks can produce up to 50-60% of their mass into biodiesel has me a bit ticked at the corn lobby.

frenchyd said:

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

Have you seen the flex fuel badges used on American branded vehicles?   That's what Toyota's looks like. Considering The first one I saw still had it's paper tag on ( they used to call those 10 day tags but with the cut back in public employees it's now more like 30-45 days) 

There is no standard "flex fuel" badge for vehicles though. They can be whatever an OEM wants, and a single OEM often uses several variations.

Nissan's:

GM:

Chysler/Dodge/Ram:

Ford:

Toyota (only on the V8 Tundra and Sequoia):

I'm not seeing any option for, or mention of, flex fuel capability in any of Toyota's Prius literature. So this seems like it's either an aftermarket thing that's being done to Priuses in your area, or it's a mix up about badges. All Priuses and Toyota hybrids have a variation of the "Hybrid Synergy Drive" badge, is that maybe what you're seeing?:

In reply to STM317 :

The badge I'm seeing  isn't the hybrid drive one.  it's flex fuel  like the last Ford Badge  with the plant emblem. But no AWD 

     If it's a local thing?  Would there be a different engine profile on the ECM to take advantage of the higher octane cooler running aspect?  Oh and I'm seeing slightly different badges on fords too.  My 2016 is different than a 2014 my brother in law has and a 2013 another bus driver has.  Subtle differences though. 

This thread is useless without pics.  At this point its one guy saying he saw something, and all the OEM literature and other people saying that thing doesn't exist.

Lets get the pic and the VIN and then we can go from there.   

15 years ago right when hybrids were becoming "a thing" there were a few local yokels who would put hybrid badges on their brodozers just for the troll.  Would not be surprised if this was a joke by someone, especially if its a Ford badge on a Toyota.   

The cool kids also used to put flex-fuel badging on their DSMs and EVOs, kinda sorta same reason, since it was popular at the time to have a car that ran on E-85.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I just can't get the phone out fast enough to take pictures.  Maybe it's a generational thing but I don't drive with one hand holding a phone.  My truck is blue toothed to my phone  and when I want to call. I press the little phone button on the steering wheel and tell the mirror who I want.  Other than that it stays tucked in my front pants pocket  where I'd need to unfasten the seatbelt to get it out. Then hit the right buttons to turn it into a camera.  Aim it and press the camera button. 
     Plus most of my driving is in a school bus where it's illegal to hold a phone unless the bus is stopped, parking brake on and engine off. 
 

Are Prius's built in the US? Or Japan?  

Pics next time you see one

frenchyd said:

If it's a local thing?  Would there be a different engine profile on the ECM to take advantage of the higher octane cooler running aspect?

I suspect it is probably associated with the University of Minnesota Center for Automotive Research.  They're pretty big on research projects involving ethanol fuels.

They probably use some sort of "piggyback" device like the one JG tested on the GRM Corvette while back.  Atkinson cycle engines don't really take advantage of high octane.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I don't think it's a loophole.  The whole point of ethanol is that you are using carbon that existed in the biosphere, the plant ate it and converted it to some kind of sugar, then we brewed it to be released back into the atmosphere. (while using copious amounts of fossil fuels to create it)

Fossil fuels require you to dig up oil from way under the ground and burn it to release the carbon into the atmosphere that it hasn't seen for billions of years.  It takes carbon that nature buried billions of years ago and shifts it to the air we share.  I dig ethanol.  Bring it.

Given the timeframe of CAFE, I think the point was that we would be getting carbon from not the Middle East.

Old solution, new problem.

In reply to red_stapler :

You may be right.  If I had some spare time I'd go to the local Toyota dealer and ask.   However It's been over a month since I saw my first one and in spite of my best intentions I haven't gone yet.  
    I can't understand why. I only work 1/2 days,  6.15 am to about 6.30 pm is a 1/2 day, right?