Why are we afraid of 'modded' used cars?

Some cars I wouldn't buy modded unless it was from a very reputable source. It seems a lot of evo's get modded and the boost cranked up and beat on. Yeah you can undo the mods but there are some crap tuners out there. I've also found that Porsche 911's tend to be lightly modded by a good shop, or have ugly cosmetic mods that can be reversed. It really depends on who owns the car, what mods are done, and who did the mods, and what maintenance has been done.

I plan on buying a highly modded Cayman S from someone l know and work with who has integrity. Modded exactly the way I want to modify a Cayman S. Modded by a very reputable shop where l knows the owner. I'm paying well over what an equally clean stock car is worth. But, I wouldn't of bought this car from anyone else lol

It's a case by case basis for people that know what they're looking at. For Joe and Jane Average they don't have the skillset to assess the potential weak points from modifications or quality of workmanship. Thus their rule is to avoid them.

I always buy cars with the intent that they'll be scrap when I sell them. So for my own cars I mod and wrench away without a second thought.

OTOH I keep a moleskin in the pocket of the driver's side door of all my cars documenting the date, mileage, and scope of work for every mod and service I do. That's more for me than for resale.

I don't think it's as much about being 'afraid' as it is about whether the mods add value to the individual buyer or not...The same as factory options. If there are people willing to pay extra for factory nav, then the car will sell for more than those without. If people (like me) find it generally less than uselessly outdated on many older cars, then it will add nothing or may even be to the detriment of the sale price. It's as simple as that. Most people who mod cars basically ruin them in most buyers (even other enthusiasts) opinion, or at the very least are suspect for other potential errors having been made, especially when it comes to engine internals and tuning.

Average car buyers don't want louder, stiffer, edgier cars, so they will only even consider buying one if it's enough cheaper to drop previously too expensive cars into their price range.

For enthusiasts it's the same basic story of being dependent on whether the mods are desirable (add value) or not to the individual buyer. But it's because personal tastes vary so widely, it takes a very specific buyer to find any given set of mods desirable enough to actually pay more for as a whole...And for everybody else it's a wash, or even to the detriment of desirability, and therefore price.

A set of well-tuned Ohlins on a car for more than stock but at a discount over buying both separately?...Yes, please! A set of racelands that I'll have to undo, dispose of, and replace with something more acceptable?...The seller is going to have to effectively pay me for the parts and labor for me to do so. But there is always the possibility that if they hold out to find the right buyer in the right place at the right time, that those same mods could also actually add value for. But to move the car, generally you have to assume that most people don't explicitly want exactly what you've built.

OEM parts get a fortune spent on validation and verification of performance. Aftermarket parts be like "Chrome it and sell it".

To answer a question with a question, Would you prefer a date with Whitney Houston pre-Bobby Brown or post?

I don't care at all if a car's been driven hard. I've taken high mile engines to redline daily for 70k miles and bashed over all sorts of road irregularities at speed without apparent cost. But, put a tool in a human's hand and you are taking big chances! I should know! I've been a tech my entire adult life (unless you count the last 3 years of teaching it full time), and even while being waaay above average in terms of the relatively small amount of stuff i've broken i still feel like i've made every stupid mistake possible. Then i look at other people's work and cringe!

Anyway, this doesn't go with the grain of conventional wisdom but i'd prefer to buy a car with the highest miles and the least amount of wrenches spun on it possible. I can tell pretty much all i care to know about the service history just by the clues available under the hood, but i don't care about 'proof' and a paper trail, especially not if it's trying to justify a higher price. Just because something was done doesn't mean it was done right or that something next to it wasn't berkeleyed up in the process. I don't really put a positive value on ANY work done by anyone else if i don't already know/trust them.

Anyways, modded car? If it looks well done it's not a dealbreaker but adding the variables of the competency of whoever did the work is almost the exact opposite of adding value, so unless the parts installed have serious resale value i'm not likely to look at a modified car as being worth more than a stock one, even if the stock one was redlined every day.

Here's an '03 Evo VIII for $13.5k that's been modded. Judge for yourselves. I'd be worried due to my lack of knowledge. https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ctd/d/2003-lancer-evolution-viii/6249027809.html It's actually not in the D.C. area, N.C. apparently.

And here's a modded Sentra that has been on CL for the best part of a year by my memory that the owner doesn't seem to be able to sell. https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/turbod-sentra-spec/6234399504.html

And for perspective here's a $25k EvoVIII '06 that is modded also. Fun comparison shopping. https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/2006-mitsubishi-lancer/6250573501.html

The best way to assess engine condition is length of ownership and how knowledgeable the owner is. 18yr old Goofus and his wrx that he's owned for 6 months is the one to run from. But Gallant, well Gallant has owned the same wrx for three years, autocrossed it, and can tell you the clutch disc size in MM and inches! He's also the one that freely admits to beating on the car ONCE IN AWHILE. Whereas, Goofus would tell you "never raced", and has actually over revved several times.

In reply to nutherjrfan:

2.1 longrod motor ain't no joke. My gvr4 had a 2.2 longrod. I could only imagine with mivec.

Those evo seats didn't age well and the first evo is ugly and dirty.

It depends, no stance or low quality parts. Although the kicker with stance cars is the high quality parts with the disregard for safety. Expensive 3 piece wheels or rebuilt wheels with stretched tires and/or no name tires from china. I would feel comfortable buying a modded car from another autocrosser.

In some cases at least with Hondas it seems you have to pay for a good condition stock car or a well sorted modded car. A modded Honda with AC and Power Steering on a street car in Florida shows to me they went through the extra effort to keep the creature comforts. There seems to be a huge variance in modded cars, the cheap crap and the high quality builds.

Another problem locally are a lot of the same poorly modded cars seem to flip hands all the time, you'll see the same car for sale multiple times or the same person selling another modded car that looks poorly done.

Definitely depends on the car and the modifications done.

The 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW I purchased recently has a few mods from the previous owner and that was one reason I bought the car - they were mods I was planning to do anyway that correct some of the deficiencies in the car, so buying it that way saved me the trouble and expense.

For me it depends. I like restomods and the fact my 55 Chevy handyman wagon had fuel injection, power steering, cruise, od trans, ac, four wheel disk brakes, etc was a big plus and saved me a pile of money.

Also, 4x4s with mods are a big plus to me when done right.

My 560sec was sent to AMG new and 'modded'. It's fully documented, well done, and has raised the value of the car significantly, but is still technically a modded/tuner car since this was pre merger..

Personally, I try not to judge and will take each car on a case by case basis.

Picked up a 2004 Mini Cooper S to 'play with', as it were. Yes, it's been dropped and "hellaflushed", blue LEDs all around, headliner falling down...

But.

M4 strut bar, M4 cold air box, I think I saw strut tower 'anti-mushroom' plates. Vehicle came with the original springs / wheels / intercooler.

In short, a "hot mess" of a vehicle, with zero corrosion and mod levels that will give you whiplash. Once I figure out if the #2 Cylinder Misfire code is ignition, or a potential exhaust valve issue, I'll know where I stand with this lil' blue beast.

My primary reason for staying away from modded cars is that a huge percentage of aftermarket performance parts are garbage. Granted, there are some companies that do significant testing (usually track testing) on their components, but these are usually the most expensive ones. It's pretty hard to match the sheer amount of R&D and validation an OEM can do.

That being said, I'm not as afraid buying a modded car from a racer or serious track day guy. Though driven hard, the cars are usually very well maintained and they usually use quality components that actually work.

If I bought that beautifully-modified $25k Lan Evo up there, and something on it broke, I would probably have a hard time diagnosing the problem, because I'm not the one who engineered and installed the mods.

And that's why I would have a hard time considering a modified car.

spitfirebill wrote: Mostly because I don't care for many of the mods done and mods, to me, indicates a greater potential for abuse.

This. I want to do it my way, not the way some mouth breather thought was good.

Two reasons. One is that the number of poorly done mods seems to exceed the number of well done ones. The other is that modifications are really personalizations and the odds of a car being personalized by someone else in a way that I would do it are pretty slim.

In reply to nutherjrfan:

CEL bulb pulled, thats classic CL speak for RUN

Sky_Render wrote: If I bought that beautifully-modified $25k Lan Evo up there, and something on it broke, I would probably have a hard time diagnosing the problem, *because I'm not the one who engineered and installed the mods.* And that's why I would have a hard time considering a modified car.

Nah, it still works like a regular evo does. Just with more power and supporting mods, if you couldnt diagnose this you probably couldnt a stock evo either lol. Its not like they installed a jet engine in it.

If Keith Tanner did the mods, I'm in.

In reply to SVreX:

Most def!

Having said that, I think that is the point.

I recently bought a modded vehicle, and had VERY bad luck with it. I've had to do about $8K worth of work trying to get right the things the PO missed.

The issue is, internet readers feel compelled somehow to mod cars. I'm not sure if it is to customize them and make them theirs, or because they think they are actually capable of improving on what a team of engineers spent millions of dollars and years of time on. Or maybe they just want to be YouTube heros Probably a bit of all of them.

However, the average internet reader IS NOT competent, well versed, and thorough.

Throwing a turbo on a car does not mean you've upgraded the fuel system appropriately, or changed the spark plug temp, or advanced the timing, or upgraded the ignition, or opened the exhaust, or dealt with under hood temperatures, or upgraded the cooling system, or tuned it well.

Very few modders are knowledgeable in all the related systems and issues. If they were, they'd own professional speed shops.

Keith is a pro, and understands the whole package. The vast majority of people who are modding cars are not.

When I was looking for my 5.0 Foxbody, boy howdee did I see some stuff. You could easily say that 90-95% of the "modded" cars were done in the worst possible trailer park manner.

And some of it is just personal preference. If you like handling and autocross, you probably aren't looking for a car with slicks out back and "skinnies" up front. And lot of Fox-body guys are proud of their "A/C delete," I'm from Florida and consider working air a necessity. So even with those 5-10% that were modded competently, it doesn't do you any good if the mods aren't what you want.

There are varying factors, but generally I'm looking for the very nicest example of said car, within a price range. I tend to avoid modded cars because:

1) If the car has been modded, there is a much higher chance it has been beaten on--- otherwise.....why install the mods? I like buying "cream puffs" that have been babied, maintained properly and garaged. Then I beat the hell out of them!

2) I like to modify a car to suit my tastes, and goals. It's very rare that I see a modded car with exactly the mods I would have done.

3) I'd rather install modifications myself--- and know they were done right.

4) Most "mods" are done by young people. Young people in general have much to learn. They also tend to drive more recklessly than adults. I'd rather buy a car from an older person---- ideally an older car guy, who has learned not to butcher, and drive correctly.

That said.....I wouldn't be put off by an CAI, or aftermarket wheels. Start lowering, or internal engine mods, and I'll find something else.

Long story short, Think of how dumb the average driver on the road is. Then realize that half of them are dumberer than that.

The reason I GENERALLY avoid modded cars is at my price point, and the cars I'm looking at they tend to be done by an 18 year old working his first job and broke as hell. They don't have any experience and not enough budget to do things properly.

Perfect example, a young kid came to autocross in a Miata, couple of events later he shows back up and starts asking me VERY basic questions on turbos. He bought some ebay turbo kit and had it half installed on his Miata. He said he was aiming for "only 250 hp on 15 or so PSI of boost".

on stock injectors, stock ecu. etc etc. When I started lining out all the things he'd need to do to attempt 250 hp, and how much it would cost he was dumbfounded.