Nick (Bo) Comstock
Nick (Bo) Comstock UltimaDork
2/15/17 6:22 p.m.

Apparently I've only driven hydraulic clutch cars before, so this may be just a cable actuated clutch thing. I don't know. But my clutch pedal has a break about halfway through the travel where it goes from high effort to very low effort on the way down, very similar to a compound bow. It's really annoying when releasing as the clutch starts to grab just as the force pushing back against my leg feels like it doubles. I've checked the adjustment and it seems fine.

Is it normal?

Stefan
Stefan GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/15/17 6:27 p.m.

Yep. Cable actuated clutches act against a lever and that feeling is likely the lever going over center, so the motion ratio is changing.

On some cars you can sometimes adjust the clutch lever itself on the transmission to get the clutch release point in a similar place as that point in the clutch pedal travel.

gjz30075
gjz30075 HalfDork
2/15/17 6:32 p.m.

Somewhat true. To me, that's how a diaphram pressure plate feels when mechanically actuated versus hydraulically actuated.

Nick (Bo) Comstock
Nick (Bo) Comstock UltimaDork
2/15/17 6:34 p.m.

I'm pretty sure I don't like it

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
2/15/17 7:11 p.m.

I drove a friends civic of that era last year. The clutch does feel really weird.

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA SuperDork
2/15/17 7:18 p.m.

Probably at the end of the clutch life. The disc is thin so the opposite end of the diaphragm spring fingers stick out of the pressure plate a little farther. It takes more effort to push against the spring loaded that way until the fingers are flat and the pressure plate lifts away from the disc. The other possibility is some spring fingers are fatigued and interfere with throwout bearing movement or clutch disengagement. Either way, a new clutch probably fixes all.

snailmont5oh
snailmont5oh HalfDork
2/15/17 9:36 p.m.

To my knowledge, pretty much all Fox chassis Ford clutches feel like that. It's a combination of the diaphragm spring being out of its "high grip" range, the clutch lever, and the "quadrant" that pulls on the cable. My Fairmont doesn't do it as much, because it uses a bellcrank to pull the cable, but damn is it hard to push that pedal! I enjoy the letoff at the bottom. It makes it possible to sit through a short red light.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
2/15/17 9:52 p.m.

Some have an over center spring on the pedal to help pull down for the second half of the throw.

The_Jed
The_Jed PowerDork
2/15/17 10:25 p.m.

I concur with the above statements that the clutch is most likely nearing the end of it's life. My Subarus are cable actuated and both have a nice linear resistance and engagement.

PMRacing
PMRacing GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/16/17 6:45 a.m.

In reply to Jerry From LA: I've testdriven new cars with this feeling. I think a nissan frontier was the last one.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
2/16/17 7:42 a.m.

What kind of car?

Do date, the only cable-clutch I've driven lately is a '73 Volvo which while a bit heavier than most hydraulic clutches (although lighter than my '95 Cummins was), isn't too bad and the feel was fairly linear. That said, the clutches in both cars (my car and the ex's car I converted to a manual trans) were in decent condition.

Nick (Bo) Comstock
Nick (Bo) Comstock UltimaDork
2/16/17 9:09 a.m.

In reply to Ian F:

1989 Civic. I'll add a clutch to the list.

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
2/16/17 9:40 a.m.

Takes me back the days when you adjusted the clutch pedal for proper free play as the clutch wore.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
2/16/17 10:12 a.m.

In reply to Nick (Bo) Comstock:

Closest I've had to that was my '91 Integra (not sure if that was a cable as well). As I sold the car almost 15 years ago, my memory of the clutch feel is fuzzy, although I don't recall it feeling odd compared to the hydraulic clutches before ('86 Toyota p/u) and after it (two VAG cars).

Nick (Bo) Comstock
Nick (Bo) Comstock UltimaDork
2/16/17 11:14 a.m.
iceracer wrote: Takes me back the days when you adjusted the clutch pedal for proper free play as the clutch wore.

I checked that adjustment but I'll double check just to make sure. The clutch feels good, just the action of the pedal is odd to me. It doesn't seem worn but if that's the consensus I'll add it to the list. Probably wait until it starts slipping though.

Nick (Bo) Comstock
Nick (Bo) Comstock UltimaDork
2/16/17 4:39 p.m.

Interesting twist. I got tired of the annoying squeaking every time I moved the clutch so last night I attacked the pivot, spring and cable with lube. Today after work on the way to pick the boy up the clutch was not only quite, but it was completely smooth throughout the pedal travel.

Crazy difference.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
2/16/17 6:03 p.m.

Now get the free play specs and make sure it's adjusted correctly to complete the job.

failboat
failboat UberDork
2/16/17 6:36 p.m.
snailmont5oh wrote: To my knowledge, pretty much all Fox chassis Ford clutches feel like that. It's a combination of the diaphragm spring being out of its "high grip" range, the clutch lever, and the "quadrant" that pulls on the cable. My Fairmont doesn't do it as much, because it uses a bellcrank to pull the cable, but *damn* is it hard to push that pedal! I enjoy the letoff at the bottom. It makes it possible to sit through a short red light.

First thing I thought of after reading the first post was foxbody.

Furious_E
Furious_E GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/16/17 7:17 p.m.

Glad to hear fits better.

I had a 90 Integra that I believe had a cable clutch. It's been a while, but I remember the action being quite good. In fact, I don't think I've ever driven a Honda that didn't have good clutch and shifter feel.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/17/17 11:15 a.m.

I've had experience with both feelings from both types of clutches.

There are several factors. The compound bow feeling comes from engineering an over-centering. Its the same reason they do it with compound bows: when you're at a stop, its easier to hold in the clutch without simply reducing the spring pressure (and thereby the clutch friction).

Depending on how it is engineered, it can be a pain. I had an E30 with that, and it seemed like the clutch was engaging just on the up side of the "bump" which made it hard to engage smoothly. You would get to the bump and it would kick the pedal against your foot right about the time it started to engage. In my case, it was fixed with a new clutch because the input shaft was crusty and not letting the plate fully release. New clutch and a clean shaft () fixed it.

Once you get used to it, its nothing of consequence IMO

snailmont5oh
snailmont5oh HalfDork
2/17/17 4:29 p.m.
BrokenYugo wrote: Now get the free play specs and make sure it's adjusted correctly to complete the job.

Most cable clutches don't have "free play" (defined as "how far the pedal moves before the throw out (release) bearing engages the diaphragm") at the top of the travel, because the cable must be held in tension, and the throw out bearing rides gently on the fingers all the time. I always adjust my clutch by noting how far off the floor it starts to engage enough to spin the trans in neutral. It's usually about 1.5-2" off the floor. The top of the travel is wherever it ends up. When the pedal stroke gets to be too much, it's time to replace the clutch disk.

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