Why do people say the Miata is "too slow"?

They're slow because it takes you until turn three at Laguna Seca to catch the 911 turbo that just left you standing on the front straight .

rustybugkiller said:

Yeh a minivan is faster to 60 than a Miata but I don’t want to drag race in a minivan.

It's always the minivans. Miata owners have been drag racing minivans since 1990. I don't know why.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Beating Soccer Moms with baby seats on board is how hairdressers pound their chests. 

It is slow, and I've owned a bunch of them.  It was considered slow even when new in 1990, these days, almost every new car is faster in a straight line.  Now is it too slow?  That's subjective and depends on what its use is and what you expect out of one.  I find they feel faster on track than on the street, where I find them painful unless modified.

All Miatas are faster to 60 than my Disco

Have had similar discussions in reference to older sports cars, the classics. My Miata is definitely faster than my Opel GT which is about on par with MGB's, Spridgets, Fiat Spiders and the like. It keeps up with modern traffic and can pass other cars within the speed limits. Are there faster? Definitely. My 16 Tacoma and SWMBO's Sonata are both faster than my Miata and my Miata isn't stock. But the Miata is a lot more fun to drive, even at speed limit.

rslifkin said:

ProDarwin said:

rslifkin said:

I've definitely driven in places where I'd be uncomfortable getting on the highway in something as slow as a 1.6 NA due to 70+ mph traffic and having a very short distance to get up to speed and merge.  

I don't think I have ever seen such a place.  A 1.6L Miata will still hit 70 in well under 1/4 mile... from a dead stop.

Go drive on the Merritt in CT.  There are a few places where the on-ramp ends in a stop sign and you have 50 feet or less of merge lane and less than 1/4 mile visibility for traffic coming towards you.  Some decent amount of power is greatly appreciated in those situations.  

One of the most terrifying roads I've ever driven. Even my LS1 Camaro was severely underpowered in this particular circumstance.

An older Miata is slow situationally (and objectively), but its fun lays in it's accessibility. For me, an accessible car is a perceptively quicker one. And the Miata plays the sensation of speed card better than most things with 4 wheels that can pass a crash test.

To me, the Miata is a litmus test for me to see who can read a spec sheet vs who cares about driving. And to the other commenters' points, if its credibility you need to defend, take the skeptics to any competitive driving event and count the Miatas. That tells you all you need to know.

So yes- they are slow. But unless you're flat to the floor when merging, you won't feel it. Chances are you'll be feeling much faster than you're really going 

Knurled. said:

Cactus said:

Drive something with 300+ horsepower sometime (M3, Corvette, most late model v6 sedans anymore). Quick and fast are different things.

300hp cars are slow too.  Just less slow.

 

Then you drive an 800hp car, and then your 500hp car is slow.  IMO the "power tickle" stops after that level because you generally will not get that much power to hook up on unprepared surfaces at anything approaching legal speeds.  Doing a burnout at 80mph feels the same no matter how much power you have

AMEN. Even now though 800hp is just kind of pedestrian to a certain group

I have no idea how people can think a Miata is slow. A well built Miata is faster then your vision on the street and most people will never ever approch even 5/10th of what one can really do.

Well, we have one here that will outrun a Hellcat, so it's a solvable problem.

It can come down to frustration as well... I've run our Spec Miata at track days, and in mixed class enduro races, and it is frustrating to say the least to set up a pass on a car that, while faster, tends to get parked in the corners, only to be repassed halfway down the following straight and THEN get trapped behind the same "faster" car as it goes, slowly, through the next corner.  To me, thats when the Miata feels slow: When it doesn't have enough straighline oomph to get clear of a car passed in a corner.  But its also always relative, since --no offense to Corvette owners-- I have had the same experience in the M3 trying to get clear of packs of vette's that are straight line rockets. 

wearymicrobe said:

 

 

I have no idea how people can think a Miata is slow. A well built Miata is faster then your vision on the street and most people will never ever approch even 5/10th of what one can really do.

Because it is.  Unless I'm wrong, the discussion was originally around factory cars.  Sure, a well built car can be fast as berkeley.  As Keith said, he's got one that can outrun a Hellcat, and I'm sure somewhere someone built a Kia Rio that can outrun a C7.  However, a bone stock NA Miata was a slow car.  Nothing wrong with saying that.  They're still stupid fun to drive, probably on my top 2 or 3 cars I've ever owned on the fun-to-drive scale.  They just have very little in the acceleration department, no way around it.

My Miata was very slow on the front straightaway at Putnam Park Road Course.  But that same car was pretty fast on the back curves.  At least compared to the other cars on the track with me.  They'd all pass me on the straight.  I'd pass them on the curves.  

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) said:

It can come down to frustration as well... I've run our Spec Miata at track days, and in mixed class enduro races, and it is frustrating to say the least to set up a pass on a car that, while faster, tends to get parked in the corners, only to be repassed halfway down the following straight and THEN get trapped behind the same "faster" car as it goes, slowly, through the next corner.  To me, thats when the Miata feels slow: When it doesn't have enough straighline oomph to get clear of a car passed in a corner.  But its also always relative, since --no offense to Corvette owners-- I have had the same experience in the M3 trying to get clear of packs of vette's that are straight line rockets. 

I think this is the biggest reason..   It's always the bloody BMWs, you set up a line to pass them and they plow across the turn making you scrub speed that you'll never get back in time to do anything about it. 

Luv ya, BMW guys :)

Klayfish said:

.....and I'm sure somewhere someone built a Kia Rio that can outrun a C7.....

Now you have my interest piqued. But seriously... I've driven my share of stock and modded Miatas. They're slow. That's not to say they're not fun, because they are. But they're slow. They are the very definition of momentum cars. But once you use the brake, you're done. 

Of the cars that I've driven, my Miata is my favorite.  It doesn't have to do silly things that regular cars have to to do like slow down for 90 degree turns.  It's an incredible driving experience where it basically becomes an extension of yourself and you don't have to think about making it do what you want - it just does.  But it's slow.  I've not done a ton of drag racing - just a few passes in a few different cars at the Challenge, but when I drove an NA8 down the strip, whipping it like a rented mule (sorry Tim!) it just sort of didn't go.  It got there eventually, and highway ramps aren't ever a problem, but compared to how my turboed Neon will shave tires and make you swallow your fillings, the NA gives you time to make a sandwich while it gets going.  (And the Neon is only about 2x the power/weight than an NA, so it's only a moderately fast car).

So I think to answer your question, people say the Miata is a slow car because the Miata is a car which is slow.

In reply to Japspec :

Depends on your definition of slow.  I Vintage race a MGTD with 54 horsepower. My top speed is about 75 mph. I can have a blast racing other similar cars because a pass means setting someone up miles ahead of where it occurs. But a Miata would fly past me so fast I’d have to check that I was still in gear and the parking brake is off.  

On the other hand a 300 horsepower car will positively fly by even a modified Miata on the race track. 

That’s why there are different classes. 

ebonyandivory said:

...because they have never driven a 1984 Grand Marquis.

Um the v8 one will beat a Miata in a straight line lol.

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) said:

It can come down to frustration as well... I've run our Spec Miata at track days, and in mixed class enduro races, and it is frustrating to say the least to set up a pass on a car that, while faster, tends to get parked in the corners, only to be repassed halfway down the following straight and THEN get trapped behind the same "faster" car as it goes, slowly, through the next corner.  To me, thats when the Miata feels slow: When it doesn't have enough straighline oomph to get clear of a car passed in a corner.  But its also always relative, since --no offense to Corvette owners-- I have had the same experience in the M3 trying to get clear of packs of vette's that are straight line rockets. 

I think this is probably the biggest real point. In my line of work its often  more important to ask the right question than it is to find the solution. The way track day's tend to work what you posted tends to be a miata drivers way of life which IS frustrating. I honestly have zero issues being passed if the cars can keep a pace or get far enough ahead of me I don't have to brake way early/carry less speed/drive my line in the corner. In a true racing situation or one with open passing even you could probably just put a move on them and be on your merry way but in most groups or HPDE anyway with requiring passing on straights or at least passing always with point bys in some cases this is a consistent issue.

the best way to solve it for me? usually is roll through the hotpit and try to get a nice gap, I feel plenty fast when I am pushing the car to its limits and not having to worry about other people

wae said:

Of the cars that I've driven, my Miata is my favorite.  It doesn't have to do silly things that regular cars have to to do like slow down for 90 degree turns. 

Heh.  When I try to describe rallycrossing to people who see what I do and think they want to try it out with their Jeep or pickup or something, I tell them to picture driving along a side street at 30-35mph and turning into someone's driveway without slowing down or touching the grass, for 40-70 seconds.  Except it is on dirt.

A Miata is slow, and fast, in the same way that a 125cc dirt bike is slow, and fast.  

I mean, they are pretty slow. The newest Miata has about the same 1/4 mile time as my 1988 Porsche 924S, which is by no means a fast car, and is 30 years old and gets smoked by minivans at stoplights. But that's not what these cars are for. They're both fast in the corners, where minivans aren't ;)

I found 16.3 for the 924s and 14.8 for the ND Miata when I went looking. 0-60 of 8.1 and 6.1 respectively. FYI. The ND is a lot quicker than the power numbers might imply. 

We just need a DRS system for a little burst of speed so we can pass those buggers before the corner :P

Keith Tanner said:

I found 16.3 for the 924s and 14.8 for the ND Miata when I went looking. 0-60 of 8.1 and 6.1 respectively. FYI. The ND is a lot quicker than the power numbers might imply. 

Yeah, whatever Google sent me to was showing mid-15s for the Miata, so that looks like it was high and I stand corrected - you'd know best.

The authoritative performance site for performance on transaxle Porsches (weissach) shows the US-spec 86-87 924S at 15.8 seconds in the 1/4 (keeping in mind that's with 1980's tires). The '88 (what I have) got an additional 10hp at the same weight and gearing so probably a tad bit quicker, FWIW (the 1988 944, which is said to be slightly slower than the '88 924S with the same drivetrain, is listed at 15.8). Modern sticky tires could eke a few tenths out I imagine, but whatever...I have a slow Porsche in a drag race, lol. And I'm ok with that.

I'm an engineer, so I believe that a car is exactly as quick as the numbers show, no matter how quick it might feel :)

Quickness in turns in an entirely different story, of course. 

It's all relative of course....the current Honda Accord and Chevy Malibu are both in the low 14s. My hulking 2005 Sequioa can do it in the low 15s.......lol