Why do we like e46s?

captdownshift wrote:

markwemple wrote: Thank gawd I only paid 750 for the 02 325ix. My wife better drive it to Gainesville and Challenge the crap out of it

fixed it for you

You got me. Can't believe I didn't go there.

Tyler H wrote: Rear subframe cracks on E46s aren't urban legends.

OK, maybe "urban legend" was a bit strong, but I maintain that the subframe problem is overblown by the internet, which would have you believe that the back half of any E46 is likely to fall off without warning at any time.

Mad_Ratel wrote: i will admit, I refuse to lift the rear carpet in her 330i to check for the cracking.

It's the Z3s where you can see deformation beginning in the trunk. You don't need to pull the E46 subframe to look for fatigue, but you do need to get underneath the car. If you can see it from the trunk you might as well give up.

Tyler H wrote: Rear subframe cracks on E46s and IMS problems on Porsches aren't urban legends. I've seen 996s getting towed away from track days regularly for a long time. And every E46 that I've looked at has SOME degree of subframe fatigue. The reason the list of things is so long is mainly because 'typical' BMW and Porsche owners are very picky and strive for perfection. MOST of those things wont fail immediately and catastrophically.

The typical BMW owner I see puts off repairs until the vehicle no longer moves under its own power, and "preventative maintenance" gets a quizzical-dog look.

I mean, yeah there are some BMW owners that do maintain to perfection, but generally speaking, the newer the car, the more neglectful the owner.

Duke wrote:

Tyler H wrote: Rear subframe cracks on E46s aren't urban legends.

OK, maybe "urban legend" was a bit strong, but I maintain that the subframe problem is overblown by the internet, which would have you believe that the back half of any E46 is likely to fall off without warning at any time.

I have looked at every E36 and E46 that's come in to my shop in the past two-three years and haven't seen it yet.

Then again the E36/E46 cars I see are owned by commuters for whom it's just a nice car, not autocrossers or track-day enthusiasts.

Who owns the majority of the cars, and who is the majority of people who post on marque-specific forums?

It's like one of my friends said about RX-8s, it seems like you only have problems if you're on the forums... normal people just get in and drive.

Knurled wrote:

Duke wrote:

Tyler H wrote: Rear subframe cracks on E46s aren't urban legends.

OK, maybe "urban legend" was a bit strong, but I maintain that the subframe problem is overblown by the internet, which would have you believe that the back half of any E46 is likely to fall off without warning at any time.

I have looked at every E36 and E46 that's come in to my shop in the past two-three years and haven't seen it yet. Then again the E36/E46 cars I see are owned by commuters for whom it's just a nice car, not autocrossers or track-day enthusiasts. Who owns the majority of the cars, and who is the majority of people who post on marque-specific forums? It's like one of my friends said about RX-8s, it seems like you only have problems if you're on the forums... normal people just get in and drive.

Lol!

I completely disagree with the RX-8 statement. I loved the car, but it was a 2004 and buggy as hell. The S2 models, on the other hand still catch my eye once in a while.

I worked at a online used car sales company where we fixed most of the issues on the cars before we resold them. The BMW (and MINI) repair bills were always very high. How many rear subframe failures did we see in the last 4 months on hundreds of BMWs? None.

There are many other things I'd worry about more when considering an E46, but I don't have to, because I won't consider one. Too many issues that all cost too much money.

Early e46s were known for the subframe issue, but IIRC they added reinforcement to later cars. The cars are easy to work on for everything else.

This thread made me do a Craiglist search and there is an E46 wagon with a sport package for sale very close to me. Luckily, I have no interest in a wagon, but I thought I'd mention it.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I completely disagree with the RX-8 statement. I loved the car, but it was a 2004 and buggy as hell. The S2 models, on the other hand still catch my eye once in a while.

And you're posting about it online, placing you firmly into the "bad experience" camp...

Last year I had to deal with a series 1 with about 110k on it with the original engine, coils, and apparently spark plugs too. It stopped starting when hot. With new coils and plugs, it started hot again!

I don't think anybody online ever got to 110k without at least two engine replacements or something...

Brett_Murphy wrote: This thread made me do a Craiglist search and there is an E46 wagon with a sport package for sale very close to me. Luckily, I have no interest in a wagon, but I thought I'd mention it.

Ah, dang. That's what I really wanted.

I haz questions about the driving experience. I have not driven a BMW with a manual trans or of this vintage (did the 2 day thing at BMW's facility in SC a few years ago, but everything was an autotragic and new and that is my only experience driving BMW's). Been contemplating adding a sedan to the fleet (purely street use, trip mobile, and possible dd) and these seem like a reasonable alternative.

We have or have had an FR-S, 350Z, and SN-95 Mustang GT. The FR-S is the stiffest chassis & probably the best handling of these, but IMHO is under powered. An extra 100HP & 100lb-ft would be "just right". The 350Z is too "composed", meaning that it's capabilities put you in the "jail time" range when exploring what half it's limits might be on the street (with new wheels and tires, the FR-S may end up in this camp). The Mustang was a blast but I found the stock seats intolerable for anything longer than a 45 minute stint. It also had a cat-back system that droned at highway speeds. Sounded great when you were getting on it, but caused a headache cruising for any length of time. It was however, total redneck fun. Want sideways in 2nd gear, push the loud pedal.

Which one does the E46 more closely replicate? I'm thinking it's probably more like the 350Z, comfortable, competent, easy to drive fast (and potentially incur legal fees), not enough power to have dumb @ss fun, and thus boring.

In reply to CyberEric:

With a lot of BMWs and other Euro cars, it's the labor not the parts that get spendy. If you do your own work, a $2500-3000 cooling system refresh (at book rate) can be done for $700. The rear bushing job would be maybe $2k at a shop, but is $250 at home... I just bought a cherry e46, my second, so maybe I'm biased, but: I'd much rather have a car where the main typical faults are known and fixable, at reasonable cost, as opposed to one with more random issues that are harder to diagnose.

In reply to secretariata:

An E46 330 is kinda between those 2 extremes. It's composed and refined (and grippy with the right tires), so you can get yourself into trouble. But it's got enough power to hoon it around a bit like the Mustang, just without the V8 noises and with a bit less tire smoke.

Knurled wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: I completely disagree with the RX-8 statement. I loved the car, but it was a 2004 and buggy as hell. The S2 models, on the other hand still catch my eye once in a while.

And you're posting about it online, placing you firmly into the "bad experience" camp... Last year I had to deal with a series 1 with about 110k on it with the original engine, coils, and apparently spark plugs too. It stopped starting when hot. With new coils and plugs, it started hot again! I don't think anybody online ever got to 110k without at least two engine replacements or something...

The question then becomes how much power is it down due to the abuse it suffered?

I'm not saying all of the things fail, but there is a reason they added an additional oiling port to the series 2 cars and that they go for probably double what the S1 cars go for used.

Some friends bought a 2005 recently with around 90k miles that started hot, ran fine. They rebuilt the motor to stock specs and gained 25hp (dyno tested pre and post rebuild).

Secretariata, based on that description i think a manual 330 will work for you. Not a manual 325 though, just to be clear. Big difference in satisfaction when you get on the throttle.

I drive a manual 325i. Do I wish it was a 330? Sure. Is it a problem? No.

I sure miss mine

Storz wrote: I sure miss mine

Yeah, we had a 330i ZHP as well and I keep thinking I should have kept it. I did hate those wheels though. Heavy as hell and so hard to clean. Love the look of them though.

I fixed a friend's DISA with crazy glue and it's been working like that for about 80k now. The one on my wagon seems fine at 150k.

Why do people like them? Ahh, it's a 3-Series thing. You wouldn't understand.

I've had four e46s now and they are simply wonderful. Currently selling my e46 M3 to most likely move back into an e46 sedan.

Of the four, I miss the Imola red ZHP the most. What a gorgeous color.

Huckleberry wrote: I fixed a friend's DISA with crazy glue and it's been working like that for about 80k now. The one on my wagon seems fine at 150k.

DISAs are easy as pie, and not even very expensive if you choose to replace the whole thing. It's a couple of hose clamps and two bolts.