It seems to be that many Pro Touring setups are home built. Welding, welding and a bit more welding. Now on the modern trucks and cars it seems like you can get away with bolt ons, but on the older stuff it definitely seems like fab.
So, are there kits to make a ProTouring C10, and if so, how much do they cost?
bravenrace wrote: I have to wonder. A '65 Mustang like mine is one of the lightest muscle/pony cars of the era (mine weighs 2800 lb.), and even that car is 800lbs heavier than my TVR with an aluminum headed V8 in it (right at 2000 lbs.). The TVR has IRS, rack and pinion, coil overs, a very stiff tube frame, a low CG, and 50/50 weight distribution. I grew up driving Muscle cars, and while I haven't driven one of the relatively high tech pro touring cars that compete in this autocrosses, I have to believe that my TVR would clean up (drivers being equal). What am I missing? Or should I build it and do it?
Sounds like build it and do it to me. 
They are both yours, and I'll assume you would be equal to yourself driving. 
Rob_Mopar wrote:bravenrace wrote: I have to wonder. A '65 Mustang like mine is one of the lightest muscle/pony cars of the era (mine weighs 2800 lb.), and even that car is 800lbs heavier than my TVR with an aluminum headed V8 in it (right at 2000 lbs.). The TVR has IRS, rack and pinion, coil overs, a very stiff tube frame, a low CG, and 50/50 weight distribution. I grew up driving Muscle cars, and while I haven't driven one of the relatively high tech pro touring cars that compete in this autocrosses, I have to believe that my TVR would clean up (drivers being equal). What am I missing? Or should I build it and do it?Sounds like build it and do it to me.
My name is Brian Hamilton, and I approve of this message.
Seriously, why not build the TVR into a street fighter. You just said it yourself, it's a perfect platform. Build the '65 too. Why not?! As Rob_Mopar said, they're both yours so do it!
In reply to bravenrace:
The super-crazy guys are basically taking roundy-round chassis, stuffing them full of LS, and dropping the old bodies on top. They are just silhouette cars. The slightly-less-crazy are buying real carbon fiber body panels for everything and re-welding/replacing the suspension (including frame rail height and pickup points). The biggest thing though is outright grip. 305's are downright "small" to most of the serious cars. How much rubber can you stuff in a TVR?
In reply to Javelin:
From my experience, the fast guys aren't using roundy round stuff as much as specifically built pro touring equipment, but whatever.
Contact patch would definitely be the challenge, but with only 2000 lbs I don't need the same kind of rubber the guy running a 3400 lb muscle car does. And if that car has a 400 hp LS, all I'd need is 235hp for the same weight to power ratio.
You have to look at this in autocross terms, not muscle car terms. My 2000 lb CRX has 205 rubber on it and I'm pretty sure with enough power it would toast most of those pro touring cars. I'm not sure what width tire I can fit in the TVR, but it's a lot wider than that. I've also driven other V8 TVRs in anger that have stock wheel openings and they are wickedly fast and handle fantastic, so I really don't think that would be a problem.
Here's another thing. I'm no pro touring autocross expert, but I have a lot of years of seat time autocrossing and have won many championships. When I see these pro touring cars on the course, even the guys that are winning don't look all that fast to me. Just an observation, but some of the lines they take and what looks to be steering with the throttle just aren't the fastest ways for any car to get around an autocross course. I just wonder about the level of driving at those events, and how many of the guys really have serious experience in autocrossing. Again, just an observation, and I could be wrong.
In any case, I think with equal driving, those cars would have a hard time keeping up with a 2000lb TVR with the same weight to power ratio, especially since at least the courses I've seen have been kind of on the tight side.
Conquest351 wrote: ... Build the '65 too. Why not?! ...
Your so funny! I have two kids starting college next year! That's why the TVR is for sale and the Mustang likely will be also. So I'm just speculating really. I might be able to swing keeping one of them, but I definitely will need to sell one and do low budget on the other.
In reply to bravenrace:
The Mustang you posted:
Is one of the most raced PT cars out there, and is a homebuilt roundy-round style chassis with a Mustang skin welded on. The same guy is building an AMX now.
And 400HP isn't very common. 500-600 is at the top level (Red Devil, Bad Penny, etc). And 3400Lbs is also uncommon, again most of the top cars (that are actually built for autocross, or more commonly open track/time attack) are under 3K. All-aluminum motors, light wheels, gutted interiors, and cf body panels drop it down real quick.
That's all top level giant-$$$$$ stuff though. The "grassroots" guy is doing a bolt-on suspension package and brake upgrade and possibly doing some motor work (aluminum heads, EFI, etc). In that case, yes, the TVR would probably whoop up on them, but PT is about driving the car you love, even if it's not the fastest. (See Schwartz's Vega for example).
He also upgraded the supercharger and swapped the entire interior over.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52790
bravenrace wrote:Conquest351 wrote: ... Build the '65 too. Why not?! ...Your so funny! I have two kids starting college next year! That's why the TVR is for sale and the Mustang likely will be also. So I'm just speculating really. I might be able to swing keeping one of them, but I definitely will need to sell one and do low budget on the other.
Ooooh, damn kids get you every time. I have a 16 yr old and a 2 yr old. Once the stuff from the 16 yo is paid for, we're back to starting aaaalllll over again. LOL I feel ya brother.
In reply to Conquest351:
Hey, at least you get to spread it out a little, although by the time your 2 yr old is ready for college, who knows that it will cost!
patgizz wrote:stealthfighter1 wrote:LA LA LA i can't hear you stop posting stuff like that or i will keep my sonoma and my wife will get annoyed that i replaced it before i sold it then kept it too.
damn that makes me miss my drivabeater....
go to pro-touring.com and search that one. it was a riot, but i took it too far for it to be fun on the street anymore.
michael
stealthfighter1 wrote:
Having wanted to put a Bravada grille on my V8 S10 in high school, I totally less-than-three this.
/now to find the time to resurrect said S10 as a Pro Tourer...
Anyone else researching bodies to drop on/over a Nascar chassis?
Appleseed wrote: Anyone else researching bodies to drop on/over a Nascar chassis?
If I find one cheap enough I want to put one under my Monte Carlo, There is quite a bit of work to be done but at this point whats a few more years
My 1991 firebird, has run AutoX,Track Days,Drag strip,and Drift events. The car is always driven to and from the tracks/events. id like to think its a pro touring car even though it's a 1991, and i run 16" rims :)
Heres me havin some fun at our local 1/2 mile Circle track.
and an autox
stealthfighter1 wrote:
What size tires are those?
That is the look I want for my old van.
I'm guessing 255/60-15 or 275/60-15.
Phantom
Phantom347 wrote: I'm guessing 255/60-15 or 275/60-15.
I'm guessing 275's. All of those trucks including the 88-96's will EASILY swallow a 10" wide rim without hanging outside the fender, by a millimeter. The frame on the other hand will get stress cracks around the steering box mounting holes trying to turn something that wide.
jde wrote:stealthfighter1 wrote:Having wanted to put a Bravada grille on my V8 S10 in high school, I totally less-than-three this. /now to find the time to resurrect said S10 as a Pro Tourer...
yep, a first gen essdime is a serious want in my book...I keep having nasty challenge car thoughts that involve them
Appleseed wrote: Anyone else researching bodies to drop on/over a Nascar chassis?
Stumbled upon this when researching above topic:
and this...from our very own reader rides
cturbosc:
midniteson wrote: My 1991 firebird, has run AutoX,Track Days,Drag strip,and Drift events. The car is always driven to and from the tracks/events. id like to think its a pro touring car even though it's a 1991, and i run 16" rims :) Heres me havin some fun at our local 1/2 mile Circle track.
YOU sir...
Are doin it right!!!
Appleseed wrote: Anyone else researching bodies to drop on/over a Nascar chassis?
No, but that's what NASCAR should do!
In reply to bravenrace:
I'd start watching NASCAR if they raced the same "cars" they do now with classic bodies on them.
JohnInKansas wrote: In reply to bravenrace: I'd start watching NASCAR if they raced stock cars...
FTFYRUNSANDHIDESFLAMESUITON
Ranger50 wrote:Phantom347 wrote: I'm guessing 255/60-15 or 275/60-15.I'm guessing 275's. All of those trucks including the 88-96's will EASILY swallow a 10" wide rim without hanging outside the fender, by a millimeter. The frame on the other hand will get stress cracks around the steering box mounting holes trying to turn something that wide.
There is a fairly easy fix to prevent that. On our street stocks we would take some thick walled tubing and make sleeves for the bolts to pass through. Drill the frame holes bigger, pass the tubing through and weld to both sides of the frame. If you are really feeling ambitious you can also rotate the steering box and idler arm so that they are parallel to the ground to reduce bumpsteer but you will have to modify the shaft from the steering column.
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