In reply to ddavidv :
CAFE requirements for both cars and trucks developed over time. So while full sized trucks got better, the segment requirement also had to get better.
And in the 90s, the full sized pick ups were joined by the SUVs for the CAFE requirement (they were always included, but the popularity blew up). Which meant the 4 cyl trucks had to be sold to meet CAFE- had "having" to be sold meant they were largely given away.
dean1484 said:ProDarwin said:The EPA isn;t in this equation. CAFE is set by the NHTSA. You can imagine safety is a top priority. https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy
I wont dispute the larger SUV argument, but its difficult to prove.
The footprint does not discourage a Smart or a Versa, it just does not encourage making tiny cars to achieve CAFE.
When I was a licensed state inspector we were told by the state that the emission regulations were all at the directive of the EPA. They are the big dog with the mucle to both approve and enforce the emission regulations.
That is accurate, unless you were in California or later one of the Green States.
CAFE was part of the data that came out of emissions testing, but it's not an emissions requirement. Still isn't. Although it should be, as CO2 was ruled to be part of the Clean Air Act not too many years ago after a lawsuit.
I realized that I couldn't have moved this sofa with the Avalanche I replaced with this Rabbit.
Small trucks rule. Tell me which bed you want to load a hideabed sofa into, the one at knee height or the one at chest height?
Small trucks do indeed rule. I love my El Camino for its correct amount of doors, low bed height, and usable 6-1/2 ft length. I wish a modern, safe, efficient version existed, even without a V8 or RWD. Of course I also lust for a Holden Ute.
RevRico said:Why weren't there more El Caminos and Rancheros?
I'm not being inflammatory, I'm genuinely curious, and a thread about mini trucks seems a place to ask.
The one Elkie I've been in was far more comfortable than my S10, in that my stomach didn't rub on the steering wheel.
Because they were never able to find the balance in suspension stiffness/ payload on a passenger car platform.
Make ''em soft enough to be comfortable and the thing drags on the ground when loaded. Make 'em stiff enough to haul something and they drive like E36 M3 when not loaded.
On a truck platform buyers accept that the thing will drive like a truck.
How does the CAFE standard/ footprint issue play out in newer electric trucks?
Is a very large vehicle that has no emissions a CAFE rules advantage for the manufacturers?
Im thinking the CAFE standards are fleet wide, so it seems to make sense to me that there would be giant vehicles with zero emissions as a formulaic advantage to manufacturers.
In reply to SV reX :
Mine came with adjustable rear air shocks for exactly this reason. When I go to pick up something heavy, I bring a bicycle pump with me and jack those things up to 100+ psi. Then air back down after unloading. Schrader valve by the license plate. Unfortunately today's buyers would be confounded by such a system.
SV reX said:How does the CAFE standard/ footprint issue play out in newer electric trucks?
Is a very large vehicle that has no emissions a CAFE rules advantage for the manufacturers?
Im thinking the CAFE standards are fleet wide, so it seems to make sense to me that there would be giant vehicles with zero emissions as a formulaic advantage to manufacturers.
Not anymore. They changed to individual platform requirements about a decade ago. Which is the core hypothesis of the video.
In reply to maschinenbau :
How much can an El Camino tow?
alfadriver said:SV reX said:How does the CAFE standard/ footprint issue play out in newer electric trucks?
Is a very large vehicle that has no emissions a CAFE rules advantage for the manufacturers?
Im thinking the CAFE standards are fleet wide, so it seems to make sense to me that there would be giant vehicles with zero emissions as a formulaic advantage to manufacturers.
Not anymore. They changed to individual platform requirements about a decade ago. Which is the core hypothesis of the video.
But aren't they then weighted based on total fleet sales? Or are manufacturers paying penalties per-platform?
GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to maschinenbau :
How much can an El Camino tow?
Counterpoint: How easy is it to park a full size truck in a parking garage?
Different primary goals, different tradeoffs.
My wife hates the way El Caminos/Rancheros look with the passion of a burning sun. Lots of guys in my truck circle also think they are nothing but a roofless station wagon (which they kind of are).
I must be weird. I dig them.
But no Squire woodgrain. Ever.
ProDarwin said:alfadriver said:SV reX said:How does the CAFE standard/ footprint issue play out in newer electric trucks?
Is a very large vehicle that has no emissions a CAFE rules advantage for the manufacturers?
Im thinking the CAFE standards are fleet wide, so it seems to make sense to me that there would be giant vehicles with zero emissions as a formulaic advantage to manufacturers.
Not anymore. They changed to individual platform requirements about a decade ago. Which is the core hypothesis of the video.
But aren't they then weighted based on total fleet sales? Or are manufacturers paying penalties per-platform?
Probably, but the individual platform is the primary thing, making it mostly impossible to have a super high mileage platform offset a bad one. I'm not really sure- I just remember changing the focus to more like the emissions than prior.
ddavidv said:My wife hates the way El Caminos/Rancheros look with the passion of a burning sun. Lots of guys in my truck circle also think they are nothing but a roofless station wagon (which they kind of are).
I must be weird. I dig them.
But no Squire woodgrain. Ever.
They literally are roofless station wagons.
My 1960 El Camino uses the exact same floor pan that a wagon does. The footwell that should be in the back seat of a wagon is under the bed of the El Camino (covered with a panel). The panels almost universally leak, filling the hidden footwell with water which sloshes around until it rusts through the bottom.
This is normal. 
In reply to Trent :
I want one of these so badly. Preferably with a TDI swap, AC, Mk2 recaro interior and 'rocco 16v brakes.
maschinenbau said:In reply to SV reX :
Mine came with adjustable rear air shocks for exactly this reason. When I go to pick up something heavy, I bring a bicycle pump with me and jack those things up to 100+ psi. Then air back down after unloading. Schrader valve by the license plate. Unfortunately today's buyers would be confounded by such a system.
I don't think air shocks were ever a factory option, but they were a common 70's after-market add-on (especially for cars that towed). My Dad added them to every station wagon he owned.
docwyte said:In reply to Trent :
I want one of these so badly. Preferably with a TDI swap, AC, Mk2 recaro interior and 'rocco 16v brakes.
Soooo small inside, I dailyd this one for one year- 42,000 miles and my knees did not thank me
ddavidv said:My wife hates the way El Caminos/Rancheros look with the passion of a burning sun. Lots of guys in my truck circle also think they are nothing but a roofless station wagon (which they kind of are).
I must be weird. I dig them.
But no Squire woodgrain. Ever.
I'm 53. I learned, not that long ago but I did it, not to give a flying berk what others think. The wife not withstanding, those people in your "circle" could all fall down a cold deep well (just kidding of course). That just leaves more Elkys and Rancheros for me.
RevRico said:Why weren't there more El Caminos and Rancheros?
I'm not being inflammatory, I'm genuinely curious, and a thread about mini trucks seems a place to ask.
The one Elkie I've been in was far more comfortable than my S10, in that my stomach didn't rub on the steering wheel.
Good question, but I suspect it's not a coincidence that they disappeared around the same time domestic production of mini trucks got under way.
Even if seeing a Dodge Rampage on Daily Turismo had me pondering a very inadvisable fly and drive.
In reply to chandler :
One of the other Dad's on my sons soccer team has a mint, 42k mile diesel one. He told me I'd probably have a tough time fitting in it. I'd only use it for chores/errands around town, so as long as I'm not a bear on a bike fitment I'd be ok...
yupididit said:How did we get here again?
Trucks are the new EV GRM hotbutton.
docwyte said:In reply to Trent :
I want one of these so badly. Preferably with a TDI swap, AC, Mk2 recaro interior and 'rocco 16v brakes.
Was going through some old magazines of my dad and saw this one:
I feel like most people who "need" a pickup would be best off in something the size of a crew cab GMT355 with a 7 foot box. Give a vehicle that size a modern powerplant and aero so you can "keep up with traffic" and get "good" fuel economy.
That or they could be better served with a minivan.
But I am only the smartest man in the world and everybody should think and act like me.
SV reX said:maschinenbau said:In reply to SV reX :
Mine came with adjustable rear air shocks for exactly this reason. When I go to pick up something heavy, I bring a bicycle pump with me and jack those things up to 100+ psi. Then air back down after unloading. Schrader valve by the license plate. Unfortunately today's buyers would be confounded by such a system.
I don't think air shocks were ever a factory option, but they were a common 70's after-market add-on (especially for cars that towed). My Dad added them to every station wagon he owned.
They were standard equipment on many years of El Camino, including mine.
It does not tow very much though. 2600 lb car on a UHaul dolly felt a little sketchy on a long distance haul, but I imagine with the right suspension and brake upgrades it would be better.
Subaru was right all along.....
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