Why shouldn't I get a 944?

So here is the deal. I know most of these threads start out as a what car should I get. Well I've kinda sorta made up my mind on a 944 and am more looking for why I shouldn't get one.

Background- My current DD is a 02 Jeep Wrangler TJ and my fun car is a 76 911. I'm looking for something that gets better DD gas mileage than my TJ at 16, and I am looking for something if I take to autoX/rallyX/track day I won't be hurt emotionally or monetary wise if I ball it up. My main criteria are manual trans, hardtop, RWD, and four seats(even if the backs can old hold midgets or small children). In my mind, I keep coming back to 944s and here is why:

Pros-

-Fairly cheap buy in, even for a nice one less than $4k.

-Better mileage than my TJ, I've seen anywhere from mid 20s to 30 highway.

-Neutral handling

-I can still run PCA events

-From what I gather pretty DIY for most things. I know a couple other guys who track 944s so if I had questions or issues I'm sure I could get help from them.

-Looks pretty good especially for something of its age

Cons-

-Age- Every 944 is at least 20+ years old

-Previous owners upkeep

-Timing belt issues scare the snot out of me

-Porsche part prices

Others contenders I've thought of but have ruled out for one reason or another:

BMW E36 slightly newer than 944s but most around me seem pretty ragged out, also I wonder about DD mileage? Nissan 300ZX 2+2 none near me and slightly more inital cost than 944, I also wonder about its mileage as a DD, and its handling on an autox course? Ford Mustang GT (Fox or bodystyle after Fox) mileage, not as good as handling, and dare I say I find both to be ugly? Of course the ultimate GRM car Miata, but no backseat kills it right off the bat. Lastly, RX7 while I hear they have pretty good handling I know nothing about rotary motors, and from everything I have read on this board they get awful gas mileage.

So is the 944 the right choice?

I've owned two 944 Turbos, my current 944 Turbo now has an LS swap in it. They're great cars, but you really need to choose which one you buy very carefully. My first Turbo was a great car, fairly reliable. I did the belts/water pump/front oil seals on it and the AC compressor died.

Despite all my care, got a PPI etc, my current 951 has been a disaster. I've literally rebuilt the entire car, very little original remains on it. I call it "Christine" now...

If you can, find a 944 S2 or a 968 with the M030 and LSD options. They're really the best of the bunch.

An E36 M3 is probably a better car though, especially for driving around, carrying people/stuff, ease of working on it etc, etc.

I can think of no reason that you haven't already thought of that you shouldn't buy one.

FWIW, not a fan of anything with a puffer on it for track days. Even a Porsche. My neighbor has the nicest S2 I've ever seen and I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Great car. Brilliant car, even.

My own experience with a run-o-the-mill undocumented, unloved 944 back in the late 90s was an abysmal failure because I chose poorly based on lust instead of condition. Don't do that. It will break you.

docwyte wrote: An E36 M3 is probably a better car though, especially for driving around, carrying people/stuff, ease of working on it etc, etc.

Agreed. They are really close on at-the-limit driving awesome but the BMW is going to do everything else just a little better.

Timing belts aren't as bad today as they were back in the day. Just plan ahead on changing them once every three years or 36k, whichever comes first.

Lots of great info on Clark's Garage about buying and servicing the cars.

Luckily parts aren't too bad for pricing, not as cheap as say a comparable BMW, but they are survivable. Finding a local euro shop to make friends with can help since they can get parts for you at wholesale, in exchange you'll need to steer them business and buy them lunches occasionally. :)

PO's are always an issue and you just have to inspect it as best as possible and roll the dice. Luckily they can be found cheap enough that if you find yours is shot, you can reshell it fairly easily or mix and match parts from newer and older models to make it more like what you want.

My 350hp 951S drove to Redmond from Portland the other day for a meeting (about 400 miles round trip) and averaged about 25mpg at around 80mph and its running bit more rich than I'd like. It also doesn't do too bad at the local PCA AutoX and there is a stock early 944 that runs occasionally that they flog the crap out of and have a ton of fun with. Not particularly fast compared to the Miata's and FR-S' that show up, but then again it wouldn't be. Hell I got beat by a GRM'er in his Chevy Spark Electric car!

A friend turned his wife's DD 924S (think early 944 in a slinky dress) into a race car and is building another 924S for her with a 951 swap. They love the cars and have no problem DD'ing them.

Bottom line is that it is a decent chassis and they can be a lot of fun to grab by the scruff of the neck and tossed around a bit.

I will give a +1 to TurboSwede.

As long as the maintenance is up to date, and the car is solid. I see no reason not to buy a 944. My early 924 is solid, runs well and gets great gas mileage. Plus it is really easy to work on. I say go for it. Get the best example of the 944 breed you can afford, do the timing belt right away so you know what you are starting with and enjoy the vehicle.

Thanks fellas, that's pretty much what I have been thinking. I'd consider an M3 if the ones here weren't ragged out or someone asking stupid prices for them.

A 968 did cross my mind as well, but I don't know if they will be in my budget. Cheapest I have seen one is about $9k.

No love for the Nissan 300ZX? Are they that bad? Styling wise I think they look better than the 944, but again finding one with a manual and 2+2 seating would be te hard part.

Repeat after me: "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche". Expect to pay $6k+ for a decent 944S/S2. Anything less than that and I'd want to have several thousand dollars set aside for the inevitable neglect you're going to find. Even then that might not be enough.

docwyte, that's kind of my concern is every Porsche is a $10K Porsche no matter the buy in amount. And that is another reason why I don't want to track the 911. $$$$. I guess I should at least look at the others before I rule them out. I don't dig the looks of the BMW nearly as much as the Nissan.

Just count on any 944 you buy needing to immediately replace the belts/water pump/oil seals. Have the PPI check that the clutch, oil pan gasket, ball joints/control arms and A/C work.

You'll have a fighting chance at that point with a documented service history car...

Im thinking the lack of comments on the 300zx is just because noone who actually HAS any experience racing one has seen this thread (or ever will?). All 99% of us could do on that one is just speculate or regurgitate things read elsewhere.

My speculation is that without a major diet it would be relatively expensive on consumables, but maybe not MUCH worse than a 944 or M3.

It's been said already a couple of posts up, but when I read your post the first thing that popped into my head was "the most expensive thing is a cheap Porsche." That was followed closely by "you never really own a Porsche, you just maintain it for the next guy."

Buy the best you can find/afford, and you can tell the history by the number of service records that are following it around, especially recent ones. An owner who does all of the work himself - his internet presence or his garage should dictate a level of trust.

Vigo wrote: Im thinking the lack of comments on the 300zx is just because noone who actually HAS any experience racing one has seen this thread (or ever will?). All 99% of us could do on that one is just speculate or regurgitate things read elsewhere. My speculation is that without a major diet it would be relatively expensive on consumables, but maybe not MUCH worse than a 944 or M3.

Also compared to working on a 944 a 300ZX, especially a TT will drive you to drink. The V6 is stuffed in that engine bay, especially with a pair of huffers in there. They are very nice cars though, more of a cruiser or GT (which the 944's were as well) than a pure sportscar. From what I understand they should require less maintenance overall aside from consumables, especially when tracked.

The fact that you tend to see more 240SX's and 240-280z's racing than you do 280 or 300zx's should tell you that they aren't really as suited to track work as one might initially think.

So I think the 944 (especially an S2 or 968) would be a great track toy and decent DD. A 300ZX would be okay on the track, much like a Mustang it needs some mods, but perhaps a better DD due to perhaps a bit more refinement. Ideally, you'd have to try a couple of each model to get an idea of how they drive and feel before truly deciding.

20+ year old Porsche that isn't a 911. What could go wrong?

I suppose it could be worse, you could be considering a 928.

My "not a Porsche worshipper" opinion is that there are many other cars that can do what a 944 can do without the very real headaches.

I drove a 944S once and was completely underwhelmed. Wouldn't have traded my underpowered Audi GT for it.

I think any BMW 3 series would be a much better value. Parts are not expensive, they are vastly tuneable, great online support, easy to sell should you tire of it and no stupid special timing belt tools needed. E30, E36, E46 (just stock up on window regulators)...all good cars.

Why do you need back seats for a track car? You are ruling out some good sports cars right off the bat, plus, the rear seats will slow you down a little depending on what class you want to run.

A good strategy is to find a 944 that someone just replaced important items like the water pump, timing belt,etc. so you don't have to worry about it for a while.

Don't forget to buy a track prepped 944 or one that a racer is selling.

I think that the E36s have a good fuel injection system because my 328 got 28 mpg mixed driving with questionable O2 sensors and cats (it has somewhat short gearing). One E36 owner I talked to said that he got 32mpg with his.

I'm not sure about going with a Mustang because of the solid rear axle. My Camaro is not that good of a road car because the rear axle makes the rear end not handle too good on the street and the ride is terrible. On the auto-x course, it doesn't seem to matter that much. I don't know about track days yet.

as a "944 guy" I say go for it*

*Find a later car with the update dash. Ideally find one with the later offset wheels so you can get some wheels from a newer car. Timing belts aren't all that bad, but its a good thing to do as soon as you get it unless you know it has been done in the last year by someone that knew how to do it. Beyond that advice, check out ClarksGarage.

BMW 318ti may be a good option also

944's are no worse than any other car of that time period. Everyone makes them out to be disasters when reality is you would spend equal $$$$ on a 280zx or a RX7 to get it to a similar standard. They will all cost $$$ they are all 20+ year old cars.

Oh Wait 944's are horrible cars don't even think of getting one. We need to keep the prices down so I can own them all.

If it matters I have more than 300K on my 924s and yes it has had its share of maintenance and repairs but no worse than any other car I have had. I do all my own service to all my cars so I am only looking at parts costs.

I know... I know... I'm a broken record....

but have you looked at any of the rwd Toyotas? AE86 is similar buy in (maybe more) to the 944... but parts are Toyota and they typically are not expensive. Ability to carry 4... either 4 adults... or 4 tires and 2 adults. One previous generation E7 models offer the widest selection of rwd models - 6 different body styles. If you want a bit larger... Celica... and or Supra....

I'll echo the general sentiments. It really depends on the specific car and previous owner. They're 20+ years old now. I'll add that replacing the clutch is a PITA on a car with a rear transaxle.

If you can get an S2, that is the one you really want.