bmwbav wrote:
OK, bravenrace, show me where the Shelby 1000 available on the Ford website. Shelby is like Brabus or Alpina, etc. You can order all sorts of aftermarket stuff and packages from dealers.
What I find on the Shelby website doesn't mention it being developed by ford.
http://shelbyamerican.com/2013shelby1000.asp
All modern Shelby's are developed by Ford SVT. That's a widely known fact -Look it up. For a Ford dealer to order a Shelby, they must be a designated Shelby dealer. Bob Gillingham Ford in Parma Ohio can do that. They host our Mustang club meetings, and I've talked to them about it. They can get any Shelby you want if you have the funds.
nicksta43 wrote:
bravenrace wrote:
nicksta43 wrote:
bravenrace wrote:
Chrysler is claiming it makes the most power period. Wrong.
Where are they claiming this? I haven't seen it yet?
I can't find it either, but plenty of other sources are representing it as that. Even the OP in this thread alluded to it. Then I heard Ralph Gilles say it in an interview on TV. So maybe they didn't make the claim officially, but I'm not official either, so there's that.
I found this article which may be where this is coming from. I don't believe it's coming from dodge.
http://m.nydailynews.com/autos/707-horsepower-2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-muscle-car-king-article-1.1852483
Not coming from Dodge? Do you know who ralph Gilles is?
In reply to bravenrace:
Of course I know who he is. Did he write that article?
I just glanced at it but the first five sentences included the phrase, most powerful muscle car ever.
Only slightly relevant, but I've been surprised how often I've stumbled across E85 in Houston. Makes me want a blower. (and maybe the ability to tune an MS43 ECU...)
At this point in my life 300 HP at 100 MPG would be far more interesting to me than who has the most overall HP.
bravenrace wrote:
bmwbav wrote:
OK, bravenrace, show me where the Shelby 1000 available on the Ford website. Shelby is like Brabus or Alpina, etc. You can order all sorts of aftermarket stuff and packages from dealers.
What I find on the Shelby website doesn't mention it being developed by ford.
http://shelbyamerican.com/2013shelby1000.asp
All modern Shelby's are developed by Ford SVT. That's a widely known fact -Look it up. For a Ford dealer to order a Shelby, they must be a designated Shelby dealer. Bob Gillingham Ford in Parma Ohio can do that. They host our Mustang club meetings, and I've talked to them about it. They can get any Shelby you want if you have the funds.
Not in California. If its not 50 state legal its straight up not street legal in most peoples mind. The Shelby 1000 is a straight up tuner car until I can buy one on x plan and register it here in California.
bravenrace wrote:
bmwbav wrote:
OK, bravenrace, show me where the Shelby 1000 available on the Ford website. Shelby is like Brabus or Alpina, etc. You can order all sorts of aftermarket stuff and packages from dealers.
What I find on the Shelby website doesn't mention it being developed by ford.
http://shelbyamerican.com/2013shelby1000.asp
All modern Shelby's are developed by Ford SVT. That's a widely known fact -Look it up. For a Ford dealer to order a Shelby, they must be a designated Shelby dealer. Bob Gillingham Ford in Parma Ohio can do that. They host our Mustang club meetings, and I've talked to them about it. They can get any Shelby you want if you have the funds.
As a guy who's spent a fair bit of time with Shelby's development guy - no. Not SVT. The 1000 was done in-house at Shelby North American in Vegas. They actually get very little help from Ford, I was surprised.
GameboyRMH wrote:
+1 surprised it hasn't happened already. It's already happened in racing, every ridiculous 4-digit-HP modern drift car runs on E85 or E100.
Some of my customers are converting from C16 to E85.
And seeing power GAINS.
Let's call E85 for what it really is: denatured alcohol. Race cars have been running on alcohols for a long time, and now we can buy it at the pump.
nicksta43 wrote:
I just glanced at it but the first five sentences included the phrase, most powerful muscle car ever.
That makes it simple, then. Mustangs are not muscle cars, they are pony cars.
wearymicrobe wrote:
Not in California. If its not 50 state legal its straight up not street legal in most peoples mind. The Shelby 1000 is a straight up tuner car until I can buy one on x plan and register it here in California.
There a lot of boring production cars that aren't "street legal" then, because they are only available as 49 state versions.
The reverse is true, there were some things that were only available in California. Like the 350ci Monza.
The problem with E85 is that it's becoming less common, not more. At least where I live. E85 has been common in turbo cars circles for a few years now, however. The downside? There are only 6 stations in Vegas that sell it none of them are close to me.
I've been some thought into E85ing the Skyline once I turbo upgrade it. 1000CC injectors cost the same as 550s.....
As far as what's street legal I don't count California. I would bet as a conservative estimate that a good 3/4 of enthusiast cars that are not brand new that are legal are not legal there.
I see little yellow E85 signs popping up everywhere, but the kicker is that many circle tracks stock it because there are some classes that run E85. So even if you can't find it easily on the street, you can probably find it at your nearest track.
In reply to bravenrace:
If it's not listed on the Ford web site, it's not a production Ford product. At best it's a non-Ford production car, and at worst it's a tuner car of some sort. It doesn't matter whether a glorified tuner car is "widely known" (but conveniently not advertised by either party) to have been developed by a Ford and sold through select Ford dealers, or not.
If it's not listed as a production car by the Federal Government, then it's not going to be considered a production car by any legitimate source. Period. Interestingly enough, the Roush Stage 3 Mustang (also sold through Ford dealers) actually shows up as a stand alone EPA certified production car with Roush Performance as the Manufacturer, but the Shelby 1000 option is mysteriously absent from any government listing (as a Ford or otherwise) to be able to even pretend it's almost a "production" car.
The issue for an E85 optimized car is the fuel. To the point that it needs to be Flex Fuel done instead of E85. And once you bring in E10, you knock off a huge amount of the E85 beneficial changes.
There has been some experiments with bi-fuel cars- ones that port inject fuel and direct inject E85. Works really well. But will probably not make it to production due to the less than universal availability of E85.
alfadriver wrote:
And once you bring in E10, you knock off a huge amount of the E85 beneficial changes.
I don't quite understand what you meant by this. Could you clarify it?
One problem with E85 I didn't think of is that you need huge injectors. I've been reading some import tuning forums and apparently they are hard to tune or don't run right sometimes. That and some claim the fuel is corrosive. I don't know if these are claims made with evidence in hand though.
Like on a modified car you could have an aftermarket ECU and a boost controller with multiple tunes on both so you could switch from 91 to e85 and back again. However I don't know how regular premium gas would run on a car with 1000cc injectors otherwise I might consider that. For a production car they probably would want the same option, a flex fuel option, and manufacturers wouldn't want more warranty headaches either. You never see a production turbo car taken to near it's full potential there is always a low of space for the same reason.
Knurled wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
And once you bring in E10, you knock off a huge amount of the E85 beneficial changes.
I don't quite understand what you meant by this. Could you clarify it?
The biggest benefit of E85 is the super high octane, so one could run high boost + high compression at the same time. While it's reasonable to expect that boost can be controlled pretty well (not all that realistic with a belt driven supercharger), the compression can not (at least for realistic production engines).
Flex fuel means that you have to be capable of 91 RON. Which is a big difference from E85's +110 RON.
So that's why I think it's more likely that an E85 only will be more powerful than Flex Fuel- by a pretty big margin. And that engine isn't all that likely due to the availablity issues.
You can use staged injection to get around the "huge injectors" problem. E85 can be corrosive to certain parts, you just have to make sure the fuel system components you buy will stand up to it. Most aftermarket fuel stuff is E85-ready.
We build flex fuel turbo Miatas (and would be happy to sell you the parts). With modern injection technology, you can get a 2.0 four to idle happily on 1300 cc injectors, which is enough to supply 400+ hp at the wheels comfortably. The flex fuel sensor measures the actual ethanol content of the fuel (E85 is up to 85% ethanol, but may be less, which is important) and adjusts the boost, fuel and timing to suit. Obviously, the former is a challenge with a supercharger.
You do need parts that are suitable for the fuel. There are certain types of anodizing that don't like alcohol IIRC, and your fuel lines also need to be chosen with care as some of them will dissolve. You also need to be able to deliver high volumes of the stuff.
BTW, the Shelby 1000 has a CARB EO from what I recall. Not EPA certification. It is a highly impressive tuner car, but not a production car.
