winter tires: studs or studless?

General Altimax Arctic's with studs, ordered from Tire Rack.

I'm anti-stud, why give up a bunch of grip in the conditions you drive 95% of the time to gain grip in the 5%. I never worry about getting where I'm going in my is300 (rwd/posi) on the worst days with my nokian hakka r's. And Ive run into the rev limiter in 5th with them a couple of times, I'd never that on studs.

There's not a chance in hell I'm going to try to tach out my car in winter here. 55-65mph on a road of packed snow at best, polished ice at worst, is puckering enough, and the consequences of getting it wrong when its -40 out are pretty damn heavy.

Then there's this review from Tire Rack. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=123

So far that's the closest I've seen to a test similar to where I live and drive, and it's clear that except on dry or wet pavement, a rather rare occurrence in Fairbanks from November to April, performance is the same or better. No doubt if I lived in the lower 48 I'd probably be making do with a set of good studless snows or even all-seasons, but in Alaska? No thanks, gimme traction.

Went with the Generals! Nice I'm sure you'll like them. Mine make winter driving suck a lot less.

Studless is the only way.

I agree.... but in skierd's situation I'd probably be 50/50 on whether to go stud or studless

So its been snowing for about a week now. Woke up this morning, and it was -10. Looks like winter has finally come to the Interior of AK...

Main roads are clear but icy at intersections. Side roads are covered in hard pack, and everything is covered in the wonderful beautiful white fluffy snow and ice. I love how pretty it gets here.

I also love these tires. Had them on for three weeks, so I've gotten to ride in them in ~45 degree rain, dry pavement, fresh snow, and fresh black ice. So far they appear to be an upgrade in every way to the Blizzaks I had on last winter.

1) Dry and Wet (rain) traction are more than acceptable. We had a day of full on wipers-on-high rain and I had plenty of traction.

2) Steering feel and dry handling (or at least dry handling feel) is much improved. The general's are stiffer and give better feedback through the wheel. The car feels more composed going around corners (dry).

3) Noise.... not an issue. Sounds like I've got metal studs in my tires at parking lot speeds, but above that I can't hear the studs at all. On the road they're as quiet or quieter than the Blizzaks. Whisper quiet on snow.

4) Snow Traction... about the same. Like a good winter tires should be. Good grip, even on 4-6" of unplowed fresh snow. Light snow almost feels like dry pavement. Again, great steering feel compared to the blizzaks.

5) Ice and slick packed traction... much improved. When the blizzaks slipped, they took time to recover traction. With the studded generals, I've yet to feel a complete breakaway loss of traction. Getting out of steep driveways is easier. Getting started at icy intersections, I can feel the studs scrabbling for grip where before the blizzaks would slip and spin... and spin... and spin... until I eventually got moving. With studs, I can usually get moving faster with traction control off. With the blizzaks I'd be spinning in place, or sliding backwards. More importantly, when the tires do eventually lose traction, the blizzaks would slide and slide until everything slowed down enough to regain grip. The generals with studs scrabble and fight for grip and slide around a LOT less.

Best way to compare it for me would be a trials type dirt bike tire (blizzaks) to a regular aggressive knobby (general). And just like my bike, I like knobby's (generals) better.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

Graspics sound like a zipper running down a smooth iced over road......

Glad you chose studded Altimaxes. I ordered the same for my Audi 200 quattro wagon in a 195/65-15, instead of the stock 215/60-15. And I live in Montreal, where they salt too much.

But on weekends I or my wife will drive to the country where ice and pack snow are much more common.

To me, it was a no-brainer: studs win.

I just don't get that people think studded tires run on the steel not the rubber when on bare pavement. Sure there's a small reduction in contact patch, but it's not major. And, as mentioned before, why on earth would you sacrifice the huge amount of traction you gain in bad conditions to gain a MUCH smaller amount of traction and a bit less noise under fundamentally much grippier conditions?

And, may I suggest that the term "unstoppable", though used often in this context, is actually not at all complimentary when talking about winter tire traction?

How about unbeatable?

In reply to FSP_ZX2:

Yep, that just cemented my decision to use the new Dunlop Wintermax(graspic replacement) instead of the nokians.....I'm sorry, $50 more per tire isn't worth it to me.

Knew you would like the Altimax

On my Miata I went a size narrower than stock size and when I switch from my RE11's the steering feels more vague, but its still fine and plenty drivable.

Impressive what I can still do on a dry cloverleaf ramp with it.

I've rediscovered the joy of trolling for dickless dudes in their monstrous 4X4 diesel pickups. My Hankook winter Ipikes are a couple of years old, and have maybe half of the studs left, but my B13 Sentra with the SR20 and farty exhaust just leaves them in the icefog pulling away from an intersection. Its hilarious when they come storming by me half a mile later.

Ended up giong with fresh B-stone Blizzak WS70's in 185/65/15. First time with fresh snow tires, the tread is VERY soft. Pretty quiet tires though, gas mileage has been restored- I was only getting about 26mpg combined with the Dunlop Z1SS's, these got me back up to 30 combined. Grip is much better in low temps than previous all-seasons I've ran, although I can feel the tread and sidewalls squirm a ton more in corners, but that's probably me still enjoying the new cornering abilities since the new suspension. Still waiting on the white hell to fall from the sky.

I have yet to hear or experience anything bad with the Altimax's. I just bought my 3rd set. These are going on my '07 335i. Had them on my e36 318is and my WRX. Has made driving in winter a normal chore. I live in WI, so we mostly see the snow rather than ice, but the few times I've had to drive in glare ice with these tires were a "puckerless" experience.

toad9977 wrote: I have yet to hear or experience anything bad with the Altimax's. I just bought my 3rd set. These are going on my '07 335i. Had them on my e36 318is and my WRX. Has made driving in winter a normal chore. I live in WI, so we mostly see the snow rather than ice, but the few times I've had to drive in glare ice with these tires were a "puckerless" experience.

+1 or 3 or 4

The Altimax's are the highest rated (non-premium) winter tires on Tire Rack. We had a set for my wife's car and mine is currently running on Wanli Winter Challengers which are copies of the Altimax. If I recall correctly the Altimax is actually very close to one of the Swedish winters (Gislaved Nordfrost)?

Another update:

Altimax's don't freeze and flat spot at -30*F, so that's nice.

Haven't seem much if any bare pavement for the last two weeks, and got to do my bi-weekly trip up to Chena Hot Springs for the first time under AK winter conditions. The road is about 60 miles long. Between mile 10 and mile 25 it's an up and down roller coaster fun motorcycling type of road, but with driveways and moose wandering about covered in 2-3" of solid ice. From Mile 30 to the end of the road at the Hot Springs its mostly flat but still mostly polished ice.

It white knuckle thrill ride last year on blizzaks, with both ends of the car drifting around on the hills (up and down) as the rear tires, front tires, and stability control fought to keep me on the road. How I didn't end up in the ditch last winter is still a minor miracle to me.

Friday's ride was mild mannered by comparison. There is SO MUCH MORE steering feedback, traction, stability, and response with the studs on both ends of the car. The difference is like, when autocrossing, going from no-name brand cheap all-season tires to a Max Performance summer tires. By the end of the day I was able to relax, drive the car and trust the tires.

I will point out that I think Blizzaks were actually better in deep snow. They're narrower at the tread for being the same size as the General's, which I'm sure helped, and I remember then churning through the fresh fluffy stuff a little better. If I lived in a place without a lot of ice, but get a lot of snow dumped, I'd probably go with them.

As a quick comparison to all-season tires, my fiance has a new Subaru Crosstrek with the stock tires still. My Mustang is far easier to drive and control, especially when it comes to braking, thanks to the tires. Her car gets moving easier, turns a little worse, and can't stop. She's getting Blizzaks or something similar next winter.