When it comes to electrified sports cars (both hybrid and fully electric) there are quite a few options currently on the market from manufactures like Chevrolet, Porsche, BMW, Mini and even Ferrari–but what about one of the core pillars of our world, the Mazda Miata?
If Mazda switched the Miata to a hybrid, or even an all-electric powertrain, would you …
The next Miata IS going to be electrified according to Mazda, so it's kind of a moot point :) Their plan is for a fully electrified lineup by 2030, which will pretty much have to include the next-gen Miata.
I expect a mild hybrid with the intention of improving throttle response and more torque. I don't think it'll be a plug-in, merely a cyborg that has abilities beyond a simple ICE. And I think it'll be a fun drive, as that could be a really responsive powerplant.
Functionaly....That could work. Especially since most Miata driving is in-city low mileage use.
The availability of torque and acceleration from the get-go would be a big personality change for a small-bore sports car.
The tradeoff would be weight. There is, to me, a value to a nimble lightweight car that would probably be lost with a EV of any sort. Batteries are heavy. Could the car still be delivered under 3000 lbs?
Price-wise, it would run into the same reason I never bought the wife-unit a Prius; they cost a lot more than a real engine and there is no real return on the price bump unless you drive a metric E36 M3-ton of miles. A Miata is already 50k in Canada and I see this bumping the price up another 10k if I follow the Prius-tax. The question then becomes how big is the market that can afford/justify the toy regardless of how much they like it?
https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/17/mg-cyberster-production-version-revealed-ev-roadster/
Not planned for the U.S., but wow...500+hp with great styling.
About the personality change: Mazda has been moving towards more torque and more "low end power" in the Miata since 1994. First the 1.8 with a cam profile that didn't have the high RPM sparkle, then the 2.0 MZR which was effective but didn't really reward being spun out, then the 2.0 Skyactiv that lost interest at 6000 - all of which added more grunt at low RPM. The 2019 rework added that top end sparkle again but it also improved driveability down low.
If the same team works on the next Miata that worked on the ND, there will be a lot of attention paid to weight. The nice thing about batteries is that you can often install them low and central, which is good for handling, and a car that's only using the batteries to add occasional punch doesn't need a lot of capacity. The battery pack in a new Prius is something like 60 lbs. That's less than the weight penalty for the RF top.
The purpose of a hybridized Miata won't be efficiency, so the ROI on the extra cost will not really be relevant. You're buying a driving experience, not trying to minimize outlay.
And psst, a Miata starts at $36,369 Cdn in Canada. I checked two Ottawa dealers and while I couldn't find $36k, I found a number of cars in stock at $41k or so.
They can do whatever they want but I don't see myself ever buying an electric vehicle other than an electric 4 wheel scooter for when I get old.
I'm not a new car buyer, but if I was I would consider an electric Miata.
calteg said:https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/17/mg-cyberster-production-version-revealed-ev-roadster/
Not planned for the U.S., but wow...500+hp with great styling.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Looks like a hot mess to me. Also 4400 pounds and bigger than it looks. Not exactly Miata territory. IMHO, China can keep it.
Tell me about weight, handling, cost, range and how fast it recharges. When battery tech lowers cost and lowers charging times and reduces reliance on rate earth minerals, electric cars will become the norm. It's just a matter of time.
No I don't think so. I like an ev, but the things I like about them are not the things I'd look for in a fun small sports car.
Although I feel like if anyone could build an electric sports car and keep the fun, it would be Mazda.
edit: "Today's picks for you" on my FB marketplace is mostly 90s Fords, rusty vans, and old lawnmowers so I'm probably a poor example of the new car market and you shouldn't take anything I say too seriously :P
Absolutely.
And for those that are scared of the heft of batteries...have a look at the Tesla Plaid that podiumed at last year's One Lap of America.
After trying to catch that thing on track, which handled as well as my car...on smaller tires..despite weighing 1000 lbs more, I did some math.
The key is the effect of cg on weight transfer. Those batteries are placed way down low in the car, effectively lowering the cg substantially. And cg height is in the denominator of the weigh transfer equation, so small moves have a large impact. In short, the Tesla transfers less weight in a corner, therefore utilizing the inside tire better...despite weighing a lot more.
I'll have some of that, please.
In reply to RadBarchetta :
To me, the defining characteristics of the miata have been: low weight, great steering feel, world class manual trans. This electric miata thing has none of those...but more than double the HP. hrmmmm
calteg said:https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/17/mg-cyberster-production-version-revealed-ev-roadster/
Not planned for the U.S., but wow...500+hp with great styling.
Looks good and the power is impressive, but that's a super-heavy bruiser of a car, 4000~4400lbs! That's damn heavy even by EV standards.
I would pick a Hybrid plug in Miata over a pure ICE Miata ,
But now many miles will it run on EV power ? I would like them to go 50-75 miles on EV only, which would be an average day running around town .
It's going to happen , it's just how Mazda sees the future !
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:Tell me about weight, handling, cost, range and how fast it recharges. When battery tech lowers cost and lowers charging times and reduces reliance on rate earth minerals, electric cars will become the norm. It's just a matter of time.
Rare earth minerals doesn't really seem to be the barrier it used to be.
Plus charging times isn't the problem people think it is. The vast majority of charging is done at home. To the point where neighbors with EV's tell me they only charge away from home once or twice a year.
Same with regard to range. Average daily range is 32 miles. Double it, triple it and you will still be well inside of any available EV.
Finally price. The new Tesla will be made in Mexico. In a 108 billion dollar factory. Production expected in 2024 ( next year). Aimed at the 700 million unit market already in existence .
Price for Americans at this point is $17,500! ( plus shipping, tax license and options). Yep, Meets IRS requirements.
Elon Musk projects the cost of manufacturing will be 50% of making the model 3.
Gives a logical explanation. Things like building all electronic modules in house standardized on 48 volts to a increase range and decrease costs.
Keith Tanner said:
The battery pack in a new Prius is something like 60 lbs. That's less than the weight penalty for the RF top.
That's less than the weight penalty of an addiction to cheese fries.
BlueInGreen - Jon said:No I don't think so. I like an ev, but the things I like about them are not the things I'd look for in a fun small sports car.
Although I feel like if anyone could build an electric sports car and keep the fun, it would be Mazda.
edit: "Today's picks for you" on my FB marketplace is mostly 90s Fords, rusty vans, and old lawnmowers so I'm probably a poor example of the new car market and you shouldn't take anything I say too seriously :P
Two points. A new car st $17,500.
No more maintenance! Oil changes, brake jobs, costs a tiny fraction of what you are spending for gas?
Then please just drive a cheap model 3.
I hated when Hatchbacks would beat sports cars. They were faster because they were just better.
Unless you are a die hard like myself. Want knock off wire wheels, cut away doors. Folding windshields .
You're going to pick an EV.
The longer you wait the more it will cost you.
In reply to frenchyd :
Where have you heard $17,500?
I am a stockholder in Tesla, and the only thing I've heard is that the Mexican car will be a new model priced below the Model 3 (which lists at $43,000).
$17,500 is a LOT lower than $43,000. Please provide link.
californiamilleghia said:I would pick a Hybrid plug in Miata over a pure ICE Miata ,
But now many miles will it run on EV power ? I would like them to go 50-75 miles on EV only, which would be an average day running around town .
It's going to happen , it's just how Mazda sees the future !
I can understand. You like carrying around the extra weight of a spare power system. You like driving to the gas station and getting gas splashed back on your clothes when it overflows. You don't mind grabbing that nozzle that 100,000 people have grabbed before you. To be fair I suspect I only rarely caught a cold or anything from a gas pump handle.
Some EV cars have 400 miles + range and even though you can't see them now plenty of charging stations.
You may be different but last time I drove more than 400 miles in a day was over the Christmas holiday.
If it's good sure. Gonna be a tall order though.
SV reX said:In reply to frenchyd :
Where have you heard $17,500?
I am a stockholder in Tesla, and the only thing I've heard is that the Mexican car will be a new model priced below the Model 3 (which lists at $43,000).
$17,500 is a LOT lower than $43,000. Please provide link.
You are well aware of my inability to link anything.
It is forecast to cost $25,000 minus the $7500 tax rebate. So yes if your income is higher than the ceiling put on by the IRS ?$150,000? You can't get the rebate. But the car meets the price ceiling, it's made in North America and the batteries will come from Texas.
I have been reading from various sources since this weekend.
More about how Elon Musk is going to build them for about 1/2 what a Model 3 costs to build.
Things like the model 3 is painted and then the panels are taken apart to assemble the car and the panels are then reinstalled.
That all the electronic control modules will be built in house and use 48 volts to increase range and lower costs.
Finally. I don't really care if it's exactly $25,000. It's going to be significantly cheaper than the model 3 . The Market for cars in that price range is 700 million units. The biggest market of all!!!
VW already has their iD 3? EV to be released in 2024 Since the Tesla has to be shipped and pay import duty into Europe That's the price target.
frenchyd said:californiamilleghia said:I would pick a Hybrid plug in Miata over a pure ICE Miata ,
But now many miles will it run on EV power ? I would like them to go 50-75 miles on EV only, which would be an average day running around town .
It's going to happen , it's just how Mazda sees the future !I can understand. You like carrying around the extra weight of a spare power system. You like driving to the gas station and getting gas splashed back on your clothes when it overflows. You don't mind grabbing that nozzle that 100,000 people have grabbed before you. To be fair I suspect I only rarely caught a cold or anything from a gas pump handle.
what kind of reverse-boomer mindset is this? a plug in hybrid is basically just having a gas powered range extender in your car, which isn't the worst thing. Also in almost 2 decades of fueling my cars I've had gas get splashed back on my clothes exactly zero times. As for the # of times a gas pump handle has been grabbed, welcome to every door and handrail and bathroom toilet/sink handle ever, I chalk it up to being good for my immune system.
With today's electric infrastructure I'd be more likely to look into a plug in hybrid over full EV as we do a lot of long driving vacations and even with charging stations becoming more prevalent I still don't want to have to fully plan every route I take on were those charging stations are, I'd use them when I'd be able to but can still find gas anywhere I decide to go.
No.
1) Not sold on EVs in any way, shape, or form. The people that pedal them are just as bad as vegans telling you how great being a vegan is or crossfitters telling you how great crossfitting is.
2) See number 1
Absolutely and happily. No gas station stops means that many less berkeleying morons I have to deal with on a regular basis. Plus miata. Plus it'll really annoy a lot of people here, who seem to be so vehemently triggered by change, instant torque, and hung up on weight while also not driving F500s or go carts.
I'd really rather have an electric 70s style caddy convertible, but I suspect I'll have to build that myself.
The $7500 rebate out of our tax dollars given to EV buyers is only the first of a list of reasons for me to to stay away from EV's.
I don't think we should be enabling this social engineering with tax dollars.
Let the market decide what to buy at the full price it costs to sell with a profit. If EV's can complete then great. Make a million EV's.
Don't the manufacturers also get some kind of tax or carbon credits for building EV's? Even more tax dollars redistributed from many to a few.
Hopefully I didn't cross the political line here but those are my thoughts.
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