The Miata sold yesterday. It is the end of an era. I am very pleased that it appears to have gone on to a new home with an owner who is super-excited to have a well prepped Miata. Now... it's time to start a new era. My hunt for an S2000 is officially on.
So, debating how much to splurge on a nice example vs. saving money for something a bit higher mileage but well maintained. I'm looking at potentially about $9-10k for an '02-'04 with around 130k miles, top in one piece but showing some age and maybe needs a small patch or two, and interior well scuffed but not falling apart; or about $15-16k for an '06-'07 with around 80k on the clock and everything in good shape. I have the money to pay cash for whatever. I will need to drive at least two hours to pick anything up.
Older: cheaper; don't need to worry that I'm messing the car up after getting dirty at a shift at the brewery; wouldn't feel bad about tracking it; 130k miles is nothing for a Honda engine or trans, but not so sure about the bushings or clutch.
Newer: I have the money; no mechanical worries on a Honda with <100k miles; This is my opportunity to treat myself to a nice, "new" car; although more valuable, it is not a rare or fragile car that I will be too crazy worried about like I was with my M Coupe, and I have the 944Spec for the track already.
If you have the money to spare, is $5k worth it for $50k miles and a few years newer? I'm leaning in that direction.
And no, I do not have the space to spend the money on two cars.
Early AP2s are the best and the cars will have similar amounts of mechanical wear with just a few years in between, get an older one.
GameboyRMH wrote:
Early AP2s are the best and the cars will have similar amounts of mechanical wear with just a few years in between, get an older one.
Why do you say early AP2's are the best? No DBW?
The early AP2s are also the ones that are a huge pain in the ass to tune, from what i've learned from earlier threads on this subject.
I like the AP1s. I wouldn't worry about mechanical issues on either of them.
This is truly one of those "buy the nicest one you can afford" kind of deals.
I'd go for the 06-07.......but I didn't get to drive an AP1 car.
Beer Baron wrote:
GameboyRMH wrote:
Early AP2s are the best and the cars will have similar amounts of mechanical wear with just a few years in between, get an older one.
Why do you say early AP2's are the best? No DBW?
They have a slightly better combination of parts than late AP2s but nothing major, and good point about tunability...you should get an 06 for the factory reflashable ECU if you can.
One other issue: what about getting a PPI on a car from a used lot? I found a dealer in the bay area with two examples right now that both meet my criteria well. One of them even has a hard top. 
If I were dealing with a private party, I could just say, "Get a PPI. I'll pay the auto shop. If it's all good, I'll pick it up this weekend." Can't really do that with a used car lot. If it were local, I could just get a couple days to return the car if the PPI turns up a problem. That doesn't work either when I need to travel 3 hours each way.
Take a gamble on the one with the hard top.
Go down there, tell the lot you want it, but won't buy without a PPI. Make an appointment prior with a shop to do the PPI. Go to lot, pick up car, leave copy of ID and such as a retainer, go get PPI, buy car if good.
Is an ECU swap an option amongst AP2s?
unevolved wrote:
Is an ECU swap an option amongst AP2s?
Dunno, but AEM standalones wer damn near designed to be used on S2000s, so.... 
Swank Force One wrote:
Take a gamble on the one with the hard top.
Go down there, tell the lot you want it, but won't buy without a PPI. Make an appointment prior with a shop to do the PPI. Go to lot, pick up car, leave copy of ID and such as a retainer, go get PPI, buy car if good.
Should I make an appointment with a shop local to the shop or local to me? I'm going to need to do this on a Saturday, and doubt I'll find a shop open on a weekend.
Beer Baron wrote:
Swank Force One wrote:
Take a gamble on the one with the hard top.
Go down there, tell the lot you want it, but won't buy without a PPI. Make an appointment prior with a shop to do the PPI. Go to lot, pick up car, leave copy of ID and such as a retainer, go get PPI, buy car if good.
Should I make an appointment with a shop local to the shop or local to me? I'm going to need to do this on a Saturday, and doubt I'll find a shop open on a weekend.
Local to the shop would be my preference because then you only run the risk of wasting 6 hours of driving instead of 12.
No shops open at all on Saturdays there? Most here are open at least until noon if not later. Pretty sure a Honda dealer will be open until noon.
Swank Force One wrote:
Local to the shop would be my preference because then you only run the risk of wasting 6 hours of driving instead of 12.
No shops open at all on Saturdays there? Most here are open at least until noon if not later. Pretty sure a Honda dealer will be open until noon.
That's getting up early in the morning for a guy who works night shift. I'll look into what is in the area and try to make an appointment.
Would it be worth calling and negotiating over the phone? I'm guessing I need to be there in person to actually sign stuff.
Otherwise... I could get up really early on a weekday and see if I can get a coworker to drive down with me to play musical cars and be back here by 3pm for work.
Beer Baron wrote:
If I were dealing with a private party, I could just say, "Get a PPI. I'll pay the auto shop. If it's all good, I'll pick it up this weekend." Can't really do that with a used car lot.
Why not? They want to sell the car, right? Just have them drive it over to the shop of your choice that's reasonably near them, even on a weekday. You're paying for a PPI, so it's not like you're a tire-kicker.
Swank Force One wrote:
I like the AP1s. I wouldn't worry about mechanical issues on either of them.
Any particular reason for liking the AP1 so much? Just the more extreme engine? People seem to have really strong opinions about which one is better.
I have found a rather nice looking 2002. Light blue. Only 60k miles! I had been leaning AP2, but that sounds really nice. They are only asking $14k. On the other hand is an '05 with a hard top for the same price, but with 115k miles. 
Oof, a Suzuka with a black or blue interior? Does it have the glass or plastic window in the soft top? I have an AP2, and prefer the torque of the extra displacement. The problem comes at the autocross, where the AP1 guys get an extra couple mph out of 2nd gear than I do 
My suggestion, unless you're looking for some rare color combo like mine ('04 White/tan), stay with the AP1 or get an '06 and up AP2. In general, you'll save money with the AP1 and a lower mileage example has likely had good maintenance (the proper fluids). Also the DBW is so good that I have never been able to tell the difference in response between it and my cable throttle. SO often have I wished that I could use FlashPro to tune it, and if I had gotten an AP1 there would have been cash right off the bat to buy a standalone.
That didn't help at all. haha!
Not looking for rare color combo. Just not black (unless the deal is really good), and I am not wild about silver. Blue is awesome. White, Yellow, and Red are all really nice too. 2002, so glass window. I mistyped. It is at a dealer asking $15k. There is a silver '06 at a dealer asking $16k, 80k miles. It might be gone before I could get down and buy it though. Also, the dealer with the '06 has gotten a bunch of bad reviews on Yelp, and the car has no Carfax or anything.
If you want a hardtop, buy the $14k car that has it - hardtops are serious $$$$ with hardware.
Beer Baron wrote:
Swank Force One wrote:
I like the AP1s. I wouldn't worry about mechanical issues on either of them.
Any particular reason for liking the AP1 so much? Just the more extreme engine? People seem to have really strong opinions about which one is better.
I have found a rather nice looking 2002. Light blue. Only 60k miles! I had been leaning AP2, but that sounds really nice. They are only asking $14k. On the other hand is an '05 with a hard top for the same price, but with 115k miles.
Yeah, i like the crazier engine. 
In your scenario of the 02 vs. the 05, i'd probably go with the 02 just off the cuff.
But i'd want to look at both, because hardtops are expensive and awesome.
This thread is like debating which pie is best... luckily, I don't think you can go wrong either way.
I will say that I'd definitely look at lower mileage examples (rubber deteriorates and the older models are over a decade old), or extremely clean higher km models... I would not buy anything with over 100k miles though (maybe 110-ish).
Factory hardtop or aftermarket? Aftermarket hardtops are not that expensive (esp. compared to replacing the factory soft-top).
ProDarwin wrote:
Factory hardtop or aftermarket? Aftermarket hardtops are not that expensive (esp. compared to replacing the factory soft-top).
The car with 115k appears to have a factory hard top. The other one... looked aftermarket, but doesn't matter since it already sold.
Hardtops are nothing but theft magnets and rattles
You can probably negotiate those prices down a bit too :P
Strictly from an autocross point of view, I prefer the AP1 and its 'on the knifes edge' type of handling. AP2s feel kind of boring after flogging an AP1 around an autocross track. Plus (as sobe_death pointed out) that longer 2nd gear keeps you out of the rev limiter in certain situations. Last weekend I destroyed (1.1 second gap) a nationally prepped CR at our local event. He was banging off the rev limiter in 2nd at 3 different spots on the course. I credit that gearing for most of that gap.
DD scenario.... AP2 for sure. A bit more torque and better gearing really make a difference for just driving around town. I still like the looks of the AP1 front bumper though.
Wonkothesane wrote:
I have no dog in the S2000 fight, but any dealer I've bought a car from absolutely will allow a PPI from an independent mechanic. I'm sure if you explain you're from 3 hours away, they'd be able to orchestrate driving the car out to the shop if it's local for them. I've always told them that they could have the PPI report even if I didn't buy the car, so even if you don't pick it up, they gain value.
Edit: The Euro/German specialty shop I had my Porsche PPI'd at was open until (I think) 2 on Saturday.. But again, that's not a concern if your local car lot guy will take it over on a weekday or something.
They also know they've got you over a berkeleying barrel.
My advice: Be patient. You're the responsible guy with a pocket full of cash, so you're the ideal buyer in any situation.
Or as Grandpa used to say "Never get in a big hurry to spend a whoooole lotta money."
Oh, and I'd "save." $6k? You could buy an imaginary 3-wheeled jalopy that gets 100 imaginary mpg with that! Or a P71 hatchback.
(jokes.)
