The Audi dealership provided me an E-Tron while my A7 was in the shop for recalls. My initial impression was the car was super delightful. The SUV/Crossover felt heavy, solid, but shrank in the smaller streets of Miami. There was no secondary movement in the suspension, no creaks from interior parts, the acceleration was amazing on the go. Honestly off a light I wasn't as impressed.
However, it all fell apart at a certain point. Here's the premature video:
Here's why this $85,000 SUV will be worth $21,500 by 2021, it'll depreciate worse than the BMW i8:
when wanting to embed videos just right click and copy the URL of the video. embed links don't work properly here.
In reply to spacecadet :
awwwwwhhhh, much thanks! Did that but it's still not showing the image. Am I missing something?
T.J.
MegaDork
7/21/19 12:15 p.m.
Rats. I was hoping an e-tron was some sort of hybrid R8.
In reply to jr10cross :
yes you have to use the "insert embed media" function next to the emoji at the top of the comment box.
In reply to jr10cross :
so your second video issues all appear to be caused by the type of charging you're using. Level 2 charging is not very fast, better than a wall plug, but not the super fast charging that gets talked about all the time.
where you get your power from is paramount in how fast you can charge. The e tron has DC fast charge but you weren't using it. that's what the additional flip down is below the level 2 charge port that you were using.
https://www.plugshare.com/ shows where chargers are available by type all over the country.
EVGO is one of the most common DC fast charge options. for someone like you who isn't an EV owner it's a bit confusing and cumbersome to get started, but once you know, you can charge pretty quick and it's affordable.
Here's an article from a few months back on how their charging pricing works.
EV's are not perfect, they're absolutely more tech toy than car.
and I don't agree with your sentiment on how they're going to depreciate becuase the E tron has fast charge capability and it's practical as a SUV and has a solid 200 mile range.
Dave M
Reader
7/21/19 1:20 p.m.
In reply to spacecadet :
It will be interesting to see if VAGs Electrify America charge network is useful and built out quickly. Unless you have a Tesla, the inability to find a DC fast charger is a critical hurdle to using your EV for more than a city car. Presumably they could build in the Tesla functionality into all VAG electric vehicles but don't hold your breath. The legacy manufacturers don't seem to get the importance of building infrastructure.
In reply to Dave M :
Tesla infrastructure would help if it was compatible, but it's not necessarily needed for non teslas to work long term. The E tron has the DC fast charge SAE connector and that network is growing.
In reply to spacecadet :
Yep, those were my exact points. I was just given an EV as an option against gas power without any training or instruction. I wanted to go in completely dark and see how difficult it was to use. Thanks for the graft showing the type of charging and expected mileage. I did see the extra flap with additional ports. 20 miles for $1.50 is still saving money but the savings are not as high as I initially thought. I'm looking forward to the days where the vehicle can regen on solar power and auto-pilot itself to and from the charging station, without inconveniencing its owner. I think that's all reasonable in good time. What do think about depreciation though? Do we have real interest in a $85k EV SUV that doesn't quite fit the go anywhere, rigid classification? I don't know the articulating gold wing doors might be worth the extra bang 
In reply to spacecadet :
What's your 2 year depreciation estimate? Do you think it will still be work $50k?
In reply to Slippery :
Yes sir! I got the hell out of Michigan. LOL
One thing that people pushing EVs is that charging is not free !
Sure you can go a few places like Walmart , but in the long run electric costs money and someone had to pay.
I hope VW builds in enough excess room for whatever shows up in 3-5 years , so they have room in the box for new plugs and inverters.
Tesla probably does not want to share , but will VW put in plugs so Tesla's can recharge there ?
And someday we will hit the wall as far as making electric goes and power poles etc will be maxed out.
It was so much easier in the 60s when you could get gas for 19 cents a gallon !
jr10cross said:
In reply to spacecadet :
Yep, those were my exact points. I was just given an EV as an option against gas power without any training or instruction. I wanted to go in completely dark and see how difficult it was to use. Thanks for the graft showing the type of charging and expected mileage. I did see the extra flap with additional ports. 20 miles for $1.50 is still saving money but the savings are not as high as I initially thought. I'm looking forward to the days where the vehicle can regen on solar power and auto-pilot itself to and from the charging station, without inconveniencing its owner. I think that's all reasonable in good time. What do think about depreciation though? Do we have real interest in a $85k EV SUV that doesn't quite fit the go anywhere, rigid classification? I don't know the articulating gold wing doors might be worth the extra bang
you didn't make those points quickly or in a concise manner.
going into an EV experience with no background knowledge is poor form. The folks who have been adopting these are generally very knowledgeable about them and know what they are buying from an initial purchase cost and charging costs.
EV's can be cheaper to operate and for the right buyers they are totally free to charge. My good friend has solar at his house and here in TX my experience has been that anything over $0.10 per KWh is a high price for electricity at home. Most people can go about thier daily lives with little or no impact with these 200 mile range EV's.
You're looking at an EV in a way I don't think most owners do. You talk about the car going and charging itself. But if you have level 2 charging at home, which many owners do, then you can go from empty to a full charge at home while you go about your evening and sleep. and that's talking about an extreme case.. how many people actually run their cars more than 100 miles a day? 50 can happen easily, but 100 or more is pretty rare IMHO. so at 20 miles of range per hour, it's not hard to get all the charge you need right at your home. For someone like yourself without access to this, yes it's not as cheap or convenient.
Depreciation wise you're looking at the wrong target. the i8 was a very special car with spaceship styling and an insane price tag. The E tron is more expensive than a similar Audi SUV, but it's not crazy.
The E-tron sits size wise between the Q5 and Q7. It doesn't have a direct size competitor within the brand.
Talking residuals, lets first talk purchase price. The "base model" Premium plus trim e tron against the comparable speed SQ5 premium plus which starts at $59k, and the Q7 55TSI premium plus is $65k. The E tron is $74k in this spec and that's before you add in the $7500 rebate. So you're paying for the technology without a doubt. But I am confident the residuals will be stronger on the E tron than on the comparable Q5 and Q7. My conservative guess is that the residual on the E tron premium plus is probably around $40k after 3 years and 36k miles and we'll see them on the market for the $45-50k range as a Audi CPO Model. that's based on the cheapest CPO SQ5 premium plus in the county having 40k miles and going for $35k.
One look at Teslas and you can see how strong these premium electric cars are in the used market. The cheapest model S on autotrader is a 2013 with 111k miles and it's listed for $28k. a car that originally cost $63k and had a $7500 incentive on it.
And the E tron can tow just like the Model X. which costs $10k more and has 1/4 the federal incentive the Audi has and the Model X doesn't look nearly as good as the Audi.
You speak of interest in the E tron not being there. I think Audi will sell every one of these they can make for the next few years. And the PHEV model coming next year will bring in those who want no range anxiety and still want the benefits of an EV around town. The borderline eerily quiet operation is a luxury in itself.
For three years I drove a smaller, less practical EV that had half the range of the Etron... and it was perfectly suitable for our needs nearly all of the time. This Audi would take that near 100% for my family.
My big complaint with driving EVs, Tesla included, is that the they all feel like appliances. The intake and exhaust growl, the vibrations as revs climb, the thump of gear change—they make a car feel alive, and without that, EVs don’t feel like they have the heart and soul that I love so much in a performance vehicle.
Eh, personally Noise Vibration and Harshness are things I try to avoid and something engineers usually try to build out of a car..
nderwater said:
For three years I drove a smaller, less practical EV that had half the range of the Etron... and it was perfectly suitable for our needs nearly all of the time. This Audi would take that near 100% for my family.
My big complaint with driving EVs, Tesla included, is that the they all feel like appliances. The intake and exhaust growl, the vibrations as revs climb, the thump of gear change—they make a car feel alive, and without that, EVs don’t feel like they have the heart and soul that I love so much in a performance vehicle.
It's a very different experience.. But having run laps sitting shotgun in a Model 3 Performance with a NASA TT and scca solo National champion at the wheel. The raw speed and dynamics make up for the lack of an engine note in a performance situation.
"iT dOeSnT hAvE pErSoNaLiTy!!@!" Being quiet isn't a personality?
VAG will never use Tesla's charging support. While Tesla HAS made the technology available to all, the legal restrictions are so tight that no company would ever take them up on it unless they wanted to be some kind of subsidiary or lower marque brand. If I remember right, it straight up disallows level 3 charging on anything- that's just Tesla specific- and the plug type and charge rate would mean you'd be using an inverter similar to Tesla's. It's really just a PR move.
Sadly, I'm not surprised the E-Tron has been so poor and I agree that it'll depreciate heavily. Competitors to Tesla are trying to go with the "Tech" idea to defeat them, trying to make copies of the Autopilot and features correctly thinking that those things *make* a Tesla. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but Tesla as a company is branded and built upon the idea of all that technology, and many of these companies only just got their feet underneath them when it comes to tech options like lane assist. Heck, we still can't get Apple Carplay or other crap on some brands and you're trying to go toe-to-toe with a company whom makes cars that can (kinda) drive themselves?
I won't proclaim that someone needs to make an electric car that's just about driving- everyone's said that, and like Jalopnik and manual wagons few really mean it- but when you're going after EV buyers whom seriously research the cars they like instead of focusing on brand loyalty, you gotta go the whole hog. These things have been proven to charge slower than the 3s, have already have a recall for battery fires, and have a wacky charging solution where their "Max Charge" is only available on specific chargers. The E-Tron might feel nice inside, but when you're still fighting to compete against the original Model S from 7 years ago in range and accessories it really shows how far they still have to go.
also E-Tron is very close to the French word étron, which literally means "excrement" lololololololol
spacecadet said:
It's a very different experience.. But having run laps sitting shotgun in a Model 3 Performance with a NASA TT and scca solo National champion at the wheel. The raw speed and dynamics make up for the lack of an engine note in a performance situation.
My mother-in-law has a Model 3 Performance with all the options and I've driven it a number of times around town. It's plenty quick whenever you stab the throttle, and the brakes feel good, but the rest of the dynamics are hard to access on the street. As soon as you get over the fun of the acceleration it's just not a very visceral driving experience during daily driving compared to a Miata, Mustang GT, or Civic Si, for example.
cdeforrest said:
Eh, personally Noise Vibration and Harshness are things I try to avoid and something engineers usually try to build out of a car..
Rolls Royce and Bentley engineers, surely. Sports cars, muscle cars and exotic cars have ample engineering spent on the getting right exhaust note, engine sound and road feel. Heck, Lamborghini specifically engineered a 'kick' in power delivery during shifts in their transmission programming to give their cars more drama.
We argue a lot on this board about manuals vs automatics vs paddle shift--we feel it's important because shifting is a part of how we engage with a car's driving experience. EVs take shifting entirely out of the equation: one gear with uniform torque at any speed. Imagine a car that never shifts, has no discernable power band, then mute the engine and exhaust note, and take away the accompanying vibration--it's more like playing a driving simulator with the sound off instead of actually driving a car.
Maybe think of it this way- the car is not accelerating. It's advancing.
In reply to nderwater :
Bro! That's exactly how it feels. Power then nothing. You have to keep stabbing the peddle to feel anything. I liked it but I also didn't.I gave it the gusto on the way back to the dealership and it was still torque but not as rewarding. Tons of initial torque but without theater and it faded quickly.
