Your dream racing series

The thread about the new f5000 racer got me thinking, if you were going to create your own perfect racing organization, what would it be? What kind of events, rules, formats would you love to see? What would really get you interested? Let’s pretend that it will be economically viable.

For me, I would love to be the director of what I would call RASCAR (Really Almost Stock Cars Are Racing)

The name is important. I imagine the first time it’s publicized the NASCAR lawyers would flood me with all sorts of threatening letters to cease and desist. Great free publicity. My first move would be to counter sue them for false advertisement. See, I saw the name Nascar – and thought that when I went to the race there would be at LEAST ONE STOCK PART on the cars. Turns out this isn’t the case.

How RASCAR would work.

The races would be comprised of (gasp!) STOCK CARS!!

I see the races being divided into 4-5 classes, based solely on the MSRP for the car. A $25k and under class. 25-40, 40-60, 60-100, 100-225, and unlimited.

Each class would have a set # that the manufacturers would have to sell to the open public at or below the target price. For the lower end ones make it a really high number, to make sure that the exact car you see racing you can go buy.

Modifications allowed are for safety only. You can strip the interior, add a fuel cell, harness and cage. However, your total weight must be the same as the stock car.

Tires, I don’t know maybe a spec tire, or only what came as original on the car.

Format: A little bit of everything. Beat nascar at their own (albeit boring game) run a few on superspeedways, have two premier drag events a year, rally? Sure why not. And of course lots of road racing.

Championship points for each $ category, plus accumulated points for overall manufacturers title.

My dream: Spec Kia Rio Challenge with Nitrous controlled by the crowd:

http://classicmotorsports.net/forum/grm/spec-rio/7759/page1/

Isn't there a kia bspec car?

I would like to see something a step above chump/lemons like maybe that takes advantage of the cheapness of old modified/stock car etc tube frames

So like chump but for tube frame machines

Jaynen wrote: Isn't there a kia bspec car?

Yep, built by Kinetic, which I personally help build 2 or 3 of...

I would like to see a modern take on Formula Vee. There isn't any car today that can be a 1 donor car like the beatle was but you could easily create something that would use any of the 1.4-1.6L compact car drivetrains. Have a cost effective "slider" that would utilize an aftermarket or OEM upright (Mustang 2 or Miata), Aftermarket brakes (Wilwood 4 pots), have a body, A-arms etc. and be a bolt in your unmodified Engien/Trans re-use the front upright (Kits would be developed based on the donor car Fit, Fiesta, Yaris, Versa, Mazda 2) and go racing. Simple tube framed cars with CSR/DSR type looks. Put rules in place to limit the cost creep of suspension. Run a spec size rim (Say 15x7) rims with 200TW tires. Try to target ~115 HP and ~1400lbs with driver minimum weight. Run limited aero.

Basically try to combine spec racer ford, F500, and Formula Vee into a modern type class.

I don't know.

As I was coming back from making a cup of coffee, I was wondering what we could learn from MotoGP and World Superbike about absurd power to weight ratios without downforce.

I keep wanting to like F1, and I do enjoy some aspects of it, but as long as it's all about aero, the car ahead will always ruin things for the car behind. KERS and DRS and Pirelli-grenades spice things up, but they're all workarounds for an inability for the cars to actually race one another.

I guess I want some sort of top-tier prototype racing without much or any aero and with engines that operate in a rev range where we can still apply some of what's learned to everyday cars.

In reply to nocones:

I like it!

Despite my desire to have actual real cars racing, Nocones idea sounds good to.

I think icaneat50eggs is pretty close to my ideal. But here's how I'd do it. 40 drivers, 40 cars. Each manufacturer gives out x number of cars, straight off the line. Modified for safety. All the keys go in a bowl. Drivers draw out of the bowl, pit lane already set with parts for that car, and that's where they set up for the race. Driver then has to race THAT car, for that race. And they have to turn right.

Fixed it.

mndsm wrote: And they have to turn right too

Don't want no backwards oval track although it could mix an oval track or 2 in there if it was mostly road racing of some sort.

For a club racer level class to actually participate in, I really like nocones' idea!

For a professional race series I would love to design the rules specifically to foster advancements that could be applied to real world cars. Basically focus on just one or two considerable real world based constraints, and leave the rest of the rules as open ended as possible to allow maximum creativity and innovation within the class. There could even be multiple classes within the series, each focusing on a different primary constraint. Maybe something like "All cars must average Xmpg throughout the duration of the race, with no other form of refueling than the gasoline provided, and all onboard energy storage capable of providing any method of additional propulsion must be 'empty' at the start of the race"...Then let the manufacturers/teams bring out anything they can dream up to both meet the challenge and win the race. The primary development challenge could be modified as necessary, or entirely changed periodically.

carguy123 wrote: Fixed it.

mndsm wrote: And they have to turn right too

Don't want no backwards oval track although it could mix an oval track or 2 in there if it was mostly road racing of some sort.

Yeah, should have clarified. While i'd LOVE to see Talledega run in the equivalent of rental Impalas, there should be road course racing, at least moreso than Watkins Glen.

1 event on a dirt oval

1 event on a paved track

1 event on a road course

1 event on a rallycross/motocross type track (like CORR)

No rules. No tech and a $1500 claim rule.

B-spec, but on a European style rallycross course.

It's been done and there would have to be some creative license in how I would afford to field a car... but this is EXACTLY what I want... a huge pile of identically prepared, short wheelbase 911s doing a whole season at road courses across north america.

I'd like a F1 where the tires were half as wide, the ride height was six inches higher, no wings (front or rear) and reduced restrictions everywhere else. I think if they could greatly reduce the usefulness of aero (taller, no wings) it would reduce costs, and since mechanical grip would reign supreme, driver skill would be showcased more. Also, they could allow more bat-E36 M3 crazy stuff on grid, like different teams having V6s, V8s, turbo-I4s, weird crazy hybrid things...

nocones wrote: I would like to see a modern take on Formula Vee. There isn't any car today that can be a 1 donor car like the beatle was but you could easily create something that would use any of the 1.4-1.6L compact car drivetrains. Have a cost effective "slider" that would utilize an aftermarket or OEM upright (Mustang 2 or Miata), Aftermarket brakes (Wilwood 4 pots), have a body, A-arms etc. and be a bolt in your unmodified Engien/Trans re-use the front upright (Kits would be developed based on the donor car Fit, Fiesta, Yaris, Versa, Mazda 2) and go racing. Simple tube framed cars with CSR/DSR type looks. Put rules in place to limit the cost creep of suspension. Run a spec size rim (Say 15x7) rims with 200TW tires. Try to target ~115 HP and ~1400lbs with driver minimum weight. Run limited aero. Basically try to combine spec racer ford, F500, and Formula Vee into a modern type class.

Isn't this darn close to what a thunder roadster is? 120 or so hp from the sealed yamaha motor, hoosier spec tires that run about 100 bucks each and last a long time and it weighs 1500lbs or so with limited aero.

I like the idea as well, I like being able to offer different options for donor cars as it adds interesting elements to car development to me. This is definitely along the lines of what I was getting at in my post

outlaw cycle cart racing.

NASCAR is replaced by a modern Trans-AM series. Mustang/Camaro/Challenger on road courses. Cars have to be "stock" like original T/A cars, not silly cartoon silhouettes. As King, I would force all television coverage to take precedence over roundy-round racing. My subjects would be pleased.

One with me driving in it.

1. Road course with lefts and rights and elevation changes.
2. Car must use optimized Subaru WRX STi motor and drivetrain. (Hmmmm, where have I heard of such a car?)
3. Each race includes 3 "traffic cone" cars, painted bright orange. Drivers are picked at random from the audience and allowed to participate.

nocones wrote: I would like to see a modern take on Formula Vee. There isn't any car today that can be a 1 donor car like the beatle was but you could easily create something that would use any of the 1.4-1.6L compact car drivetrains. Have a cost effective "slider" that would utilize an aftermarket or OEM upright (Mustang 2 or Miata), Aftermarket brakes (Wilwood 4 pots), have a body, A-arms etc. and be a bolt in your unmodified Engien/Trans re-use the front upright (Kits would be developed based on the donor car Fit, Fiesta, Yaris, Versa, Mazda 2) and go racing. Simple tube framed cars with CSR/DSR type looks. Put rules in place to limit the cost creep of suspension. Run a spec size rim (Say 15x7) rims with 200TW tires. Try to target ~115 HP and ~1400lbs with driver minimum weight. Run limited aero. Basically try to combine spec racer ford, F500, and Formula Vee into a modern type class.

I would like something like this to be involved in. Honestly I don't care about watching racing on the TV. I will only go out of my way to watch rallycross.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Spec Police Interceptor. Basics: equalization for the various versions by added weight penalty. Stock motor/chassis/spec tires. Standardized (and, frankly, overengineered) cage. Push bars retained.

Circuits would be various local road courses for regional competition, someplace central (Road America?) for nationals. Seems like the buy in could be kept in the "Spec Miata" range.

The major drawback I see is the cars wouldn't be that interesting.

If the class allows swap to a 5-speed box, sign me up. Caprice vs P71?

I'm thinking a "Targa Hazzard County" mashup. Street-legal cars only, mixed surfaces, rally-style but pretty open on what kind of cars/trucks.