Your opinions on my wheel/tire set-ups.

I have a 2002 Toyota Celica GT-S. I've been looking at some wheel/tire combos i would like to do, and would like your opinions on the pros and cons of each. I'd really appreciate it.

Set-up #1: Wheel: Enkei RPF1 17x8 - $230 (16lbs) Tire: Dunlop Direzza Star Spec 235/40/17 - $161 (24lbs.) Total Price: $1,564 Total Weight: 160lbs.

Set-up #2: Wheel: Enkei RPF1 16x7 - $207 (14lbs) Tire: Dunlop Direzza Star Spec 225/50/16 - $133 (26lbs) Total Price: $ 1,360 Total Weight: 160lbs.

Set-up #3: Wheel: Enkei RPF1 15x7 - $190 (9.5lbs) Tire: (I do not see a star spec of 225/?/15, but i would want a tire that is 225x15.) Total Price: ? Total Weight: ? (presumably much less?)

I only really see track tires in the 225/--/15 size, not really any street tires.

The car would not be auto crossing or competition racing, but would be used for High Performance Driving School, and when i go to the track, i'd like buy some true racing tires.

Your 15" would probably be an RS3 or a Toyo.

Honestly, and i hate to say this... 17" is the way to go merely because you'll have tire choices.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Your 15" would probably be an RS3 or a Toyo. Honestly, and i hate to say this... 17" is the way to go merely because you'll have tire choices.

But my 16'' option also has the tires i want. And there are competition tires in that size as well-- the 17'' doesn't have that particular advantage over the 16''.

EdenPrime wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Your 15" would probably be an RS3 or a Toyo. Honestly, and i hate to say this... 17" is the way to go merely because you'll have tire choices.

But my 16'' option also has the tires i want. And there are competition tires in that size as well.

For how long, though? 3 years ago i could get all the 16s i could ever want for my Celica.

Now i'm shopping for 17s.

I'd say look at Discount Tire for 225/45/15 Hankook R-S3's, but they apparently aren't made anymore!

Javelin wrote: I'd say look at Discount Tire for 225/50/15 Hankook R-S3's, but they apparently aren't made anymore!

Yeah, i work at Discount Tire.

Javelin wrote: I'd say look at Discount Tire for 225/45/15 Hankook R-S3's, but they apparently aren't made anymore!

They are. Hankook just has a E36 M3ty distribution system. They just had a bunch in stock at Tire Rack.

Can you fit anything wider than 235/40R17s?

Even fairly light FWDs like your Celica still have a huge front mass bias (60/40% distribution = 50% more mass on the front tires).

Wide 245/40R17s on 17x9s on the front of my 1995 Saturn SC2.

You really need 8" wide rims to really benefit from 225 width street tires. I'd put the 235s on 9" wide rims if you can, and consider the 245/35R17 Toyo R1Rs.

205s on 7" wide rims are probably plenty of tire for the back, especially with the Celica having very nice rear suspension compared to the front struts.

It seems like most 225/50R16s are wider than other 225s. I'd put them on 16x9s if I could. I currently have a set of XSes in that size on mixed set of 16x8s and 16x7.5s for my 325i.

It is actually a bit tail happy with the slightly narrower rear wheels.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Javelin wrote: I'd say look at Discount Tire for 225/45/15 Hankook R-S3's, but they apparently aren't made anymore!

They are. Hankook just has a E36 M3ty distribution system. They just had a bunch in stock at Tire Rack.

Ooh, i just looked on tire rack for that size-- they do have them. Very nice, and they're not too expensive. $118/22lbs.

@Matthew, 8'' wide wheels are the largest that will fit.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Discount isn't even showing the 15 as out of stock, it's just gone.

Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Discount isn't even showing the 15 as out of stock, it's just gone.

Fair enough... but they're in stock right now at Tire Rack.

I'd go 16x8s and 225/50R16s even if it meant using heavier wheels. 235/40R17s aren't wider than the 225/50R16s, especially not with the former on 17x8s.

225s do not work well on 16x7s. I had 225/45R16 Hankook RS-2s for a couple of years on some light 16x7s. Go for max wheel width first.

If you are stuck on those rims. These are the tire sizes I would suggest:

17x8 215/45R17
16x7 205/50R16
15x7 205/50R15

And even those tire sizes would benefit from more rim width.

Matthew Huizing wrote: I'd go 16x8s and 225/50R16s even if it meant using heavier wheels. 235/40R17s aren't wider than the 225/50R16s, especially not with the former on 17x8s. 225s do not work well on 16x7s. I had 225/45R16 Hankook RS-2s for a couple of years on some light 16x7s. Go for max wheel width first. If you are stuck on those rims. These are the tire sizes I would suggest: 17x8 215/45R17 16x7 205/50R16 15x7 205/50R15 And even those tire sizes would benefit from more rim width.

215 and 205 just seems so narrow. I have 205s on right now and it's gross.

I run 245/45-16s on my Celica on 16x8s.

I wouldn't go down to a 215 width for any reason at all. A 225 or 235 might fit better, though.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I run 245/45-16s on my Celica on 16x8s. I wouldn't go down to a 215 width for any reason at all. A 225 or 235 might fit better, though.

That's what i was thinking. Right now i'm leaning more toward 16x8s and 225/50R16s.

EdenPrime wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I run 245/45-16s on my Celica on 16x8s. I wouldn't go down to a 215 width for any reason at all. A 225 or 235 might fit better, though.

That's what i was thinking. Right now i'm leaning more toward 16x8s and 225/50R16s.

I really really really wouldn't buy 16s, but i certainly can understand that they look better.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

EdenPrime wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I run 245/45-16s on my Celica on 16x8s. I wouldn't go down to a 215 width for any reason at all. A 225 or 235 might fit better, though.

That's what i was thinking. Right now i'm leaning more toward 16x8s and 225/50R16s.

I really really really wouldn't buy 16s, but i certainly can understand that they look better.

Truthfully i find 17s to be better looking than 16s, but i'm buying these more for lightness and grip bonuses. Which is why 15s were on my option list. Is your objection to the 16s just that sometimes tires are discontinued for it-- making it annoying to find your sizes?

The biggest car wheel I own is 14" and I can still find tires. I wouldn't worry about it.

EdenPrime wrote: 215 and 205 just seems so narrow. I have 205s on right now and it's gross.

Well, if you can't find wider rims you aren't helping handling by overtiring narrow rims. So, the best option you have listed is the 17x8s and those will be quite happy with 215/45s.

FWIW: I just bought a set of 215/45R17 Sumitomo HTR Z III for 17x7.5s on my 325i. They are not a downgrade from the stock 225/55R15 size. 235/40R17s wouldn't be better on those rims--they would just be more expensive. And those Sumitomos are much better street tires than the Star Specs.

I won't be getting another set of 225/50R16s. When I get some 17x8.5s or wider I might order some 235/40R17s or so.

93EXCivic wrote: The biggest car wheel I own is 14" and I can still find tires. I wouldn't worry about it.

The point i'm making is that you can't find wide tires in 16 that have an appropriate diameter for the car in question. 16s haven't had selection worth a E36 M3 in years.

EdenPrime wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

EdenPrime wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I run 245/45-16s on my Celica on 16x8s. I wouldn't go down to a 215 width for any reason at all. A 225 or 235 might fit better, though.

That's what i was thinking. Right now i'm leaning more toward 16x8s and 225/50R16s.

I really really really wouldn't buy 16s, but i certainly can understand that they look better.

Truthfully i find 17s to be better looking than 16s, but i'm buying these more for lightness and grip bonuses. Which is why 15s were on my option list. Is your objection to the 16s just that sometimes tires are discontinued for it-- making it annoying to find your sizes?

What do you mean "Sometimes?" More like always. How many choices do you actually have out there in a tire that will work for you on a 16x8? It's pretty few, and that number has been doing nothing but go down in the last 5 years.

If you've got the money and don't feel like potentially buying another set of wheels after you wear out this set of tires is a problem, then go for it.

All things being equal, i like the 16" option. Unfortunately, all things aren't equal.

Thanks a lot for the input, guys. I really appreciate it.

The Star Spec comes in a 215/40R17 which sounds like a great size for some 17x8s. Even Dunlop suggests it will fit a 7-8.5" wide rim.

I agree about 16's vs. 17's. Yes, 16's will be a hair lighter, but I'm not sure by enough to make up for the tire availability problem, which doesn't look to improve.

Commenting about 14" tires is a joke. There is ONE tire available - the Star Spec (maybe two if we count the RT-615K) - and the 185 and 195 widths are such that owning them (I have 195's on my E30) is a somewhat disappointing. - and we're talking about specific auto-x tires here... I really don't give a crap about what else is available...

If you do want the 15" R-S3, it looks like the Indiana warehouse has them, but none of the other three, so I wouldn't procrastinate too much. I swear I'm tempted to buy a set just for the hell of it since it seems like whenever I decide I want them, they're out of stock. I'm still having a hard time buying tires and wheels for a car I hope to sell...

Andy Hollis posted a note on his "Street Tire FYI" site on the sporadic R-S3 availability.

The OP said, "The car would not be auto crossing or competition racing."

Sounds like even Star Specs are not really what he wants. Some less extreme performance summer tires--like Super Sports, DW, HTRZIII, etc.

Tire Rack suggests 205/45R17 as an optional for his car which is a size that several of the Max Performance tires come in.