Morbid's XS400 Hail Mary

The tale of Prudence Jane, a cruel name for an equally cruel machine.

I bought this stupid thing 11-ish years ago (there's a post or thread somewhere). I've grown up on motorcycles, dirt bikes and other assorted go-machines, and in and around Harley culture (yes that Harley culture), so it was inevitable, I suppose. 

I bought it for $700 from this sweet old man who was it's 2nd owner. He bought it to cruise around town, reliving his youth a bit, but age, and the loss of his wife, caught up with him. He was mid-80's when he decided to let it go, and the motorcycle had around 4,000 original miles. It also has a Time magazine watch on the handlebars that his wife put on, because he was always late to dinner. That watch will stay with the bike forever. 

Over the next couple of years, I put a little over 1,200 miles on it (possibly more, but I'm too lazy to go look at the moment), until it started giving me some major fits. I parked it 7 years ago and haven't really messed with it since, other than poking at it, thinking about all of the work it needs from sitting alone, and then walking away again. 

The first issues were fairly obvious; it became difficult to start and was flooding the left cylinder. This meant that, any time I went somewhere with it where I was going to park for a bit, The_Jed had to be on standby with the ATF & torch rescue kit and roll start skills. I'm 5'3" and while I can push it around and safely get my feet to the ground, I am just a bit too short to get it moving enough for a roll start. 

Then the issues started getting...odd. If I turned the key on, I would basically have to already have my thumb on the start button, because the battery would drain in seconds, even with diligent use of the trickle charger. Once it started, I would have to hold the revs around 2500 until I popped it in gear and went down the road. Even then, it wasn't always great. 

It started dying whenever it wanted, and not a fuel-starve death, but an electrical system freak out. It left me in super busy traffic with no shoulder, it left me on a country road at night, just all sorts of fun. And each time it did this, I would try to charge the battery, which it wouldn't, then I would take the battery to get tested, to discover it had failed. I was replacing the battery every couple of rides, which is expensive, maddening and just not worth it to me, so to the garage she went. 

Over the years I've toyed with selling it, even put it up online a couple of times, only to rethink it and take it down. It's literally costing me nothing but space right now. If I sold it, I would get something newer and more reliable, but I don't want a motorcycle payment and we have teenagers who need cars and braces and...life. 

So....I'm going to attempt to fix it. I'm trying to do things myself, but aluminum screws+cast aluminum parts+I do bodywork, I'm not any type of mechanic...I'm needing The_Jed's help a lot to break things loose. 

(I'll post pictures later)

After a lot of reading up on other people's electrical issues with this machine, I decided that I had to try and fix it; it seems they're usually pretty simple. 

Possiblity #1 cracked wire coating where the wiring leads through the housing into the stator. Replace bad wiring, good to go.

Possibility #2 a bad regulator, replace with either xs400 regulator or a regulator from a dodge dart (I don't ask questions, I just work here)

Possibility #3 the stator assembly is toast. This is not the answer I want, not at all. I've tried to source a stator a few times, it's not easy. 

So, with those possibilities in mind, into the stator housing I went to check wiring. The wiring is a little aged (read:not so bendy) but it's not in bad shape, and the clip that holds it through the housing is being a jerk, so we're calling that one good. 

Next is the regulator...but that's not so easy. See, I can't just put a regulator and fresh battery on it and see what happens because, well, the carburators haven't been touched in the entire time I've owned it, and I don't remember when stabilizer was last added to the fuel tank (I said she became an afterthought, right?). 

So off to the store to get oil, filter (because those will be required) and carburetor cleaner I go. Yesterday I drained the old, gross, gassy, oil and refilled with fresh (it'll get changed again at the end, it was gross, though), then we pulled the carbs. The carb boots are toast, so I'm working on getting those without spending a ton of cash, but the carbs themselves, according to Jed, aren't all that bad. The slides have a sticky spot that needs addressed, but overall, they're not bad. Well, except that the fuel is less of a clear-blue and more of a...neon yellow? Yeah. 7 years, people. 

So the carbs are currently sitting in a bin in the garage overnight after getting several heavy doses of carb cleaner. 

Once this is done and either I take care of the gross fuel and gross-er fuel tank or set up an auxiliary fuel feed, then I can test the regulator theory. 

And yes, I realize I could use a multimeter to check the components, but that requires a working battery, and I'm not going to get a new battery just for the gremlin to destroy it again, so we're using the guess and check method, k? (Sorry, that whole 'car girls have to know 3 times as much to be taken seriously' kicked in for a minute there)

(Also, yes, it appears I'm back. I've missed so many people here, but there's been a lot over the years, so I'm starting with my own build thread and we'll see where things go, I guess. Another 10 years to go from halfdork to full dork, likely)

I don't have a ton of pictures of the process so far, but wanted to share.

The first, and simplest, possibility, checking the wiring to the stator:

 See that neon yellow drip? That's fuel straight out of the carburetor. Totally healthy and definitely didn't stain everything it touched. 

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So, with just how long I neglected carburetor maintenance, I really expected them to need boiled. Believe it or not, they weren't that bad and I'm ready to get things put back together. The only problem is the boots...they're likely the originals and full of cracks. 

I called the only Yamaha shop in my area that I'll deal with (I'll explain in a minute) just in case they had a set that would work laying around. They didn't. Not only that, but they let me know that, if they ordered them it would be March at the earliest, and over $300... Hi-ho, hi-ho, to ebay I go. I found a set, with gaskets, for $39 that will be here next week, I just hate having to wait for shipping. I'm incredibly patient like that.

Earlier this week, I stopped in to the Yamaha dealership I have dealt with since I had my first dirt bike in middle school. They're a larger dealership that has always been great to work with, until now. I stopped to get tire prices, gave them the size I needed, and figured that would be enough for them to give prices, but no. They were ridiculous about wanting to know exactly what machine I was getting the tires for and wouldn't give me a quote until I gave them the information about the bike. Needing the price, I played the game only to have them insist that I needed tires *and* tubes. Yamaha switched to tubeless wheels on the XS series in 1979, mine is a 1980. Nope, it 100% has tubes. Excuse me, sir, I literally had my hand between the wheel and tire *yesterday*, there is no tube, never has been. The tire says 'high-speed tubeless' right on it! They continued to argue, so I walked away. 

This is not the first time I've had issues like this with the service side of this shop, but it was handled so poorly that it will be the last. Every one of the issues has been them insisting my machine has a part that it 100% does not, and I just don't want to work that hard when I'm getting parts. 

It's supposed to get very cold tonight, but hopefully it will warm up enough tomorrow for me to finish up the last bits on the carburetors and start on the next task while I wait for new boots. 

Post pics of the carb boots when you can. I might have a plumbing supply solution.

In reply to Appleseed :

I already ordered replacements that should be here Tuesday, but thanks!

Ok, it's been a minute, and there's definitely good and bad...

I have finished cleaning and putting the carbs together, purchased new boots and got them reinstalled on the bike. 

In going through everything, I've found a couple spots of rust on the frame that initially had me thinking I would need to send it out to be media blasted. Yesterday I took the time to look closer and they're less actual rust and more weathering/surface oxidation. So I gave them a quick clean and hit the spots with Rust-Oleum. 

Now, the bad...before ordering a new regulator, I decided to pick up a multimeter and see if a) I could figure out electricity and b) if the regulator was actually bad...it's not. The regulator tested fine, as did the starter solenoid and rectifier. The stator on the other hand, 2 tests were within spec and matching, but the third was testing near infinity, so back to the stator I go. 

I said at the beginning of this that, if it was a stator problem, I wasn't going to fix it. Now here I am determined to finish the job. The stator coil itself looks fine, so I'm going to give it a good clean and then splice in some new wire to replace the old, inflexible, weathered bits. And no, you don't have amnesia, this is the same point I began trying to fix it from, but visually the wiring is fine, so I moved on to the next possible problems. 

I've never done any electrical work, but that's just the way this project has been; a lot of things I've never done, so I guess that's fair. But, once it's running and the gremlin is taken care of, I do plan to completely rewire the electricals and make some changes, so this is good practice. 

Only Yamadog I ever owned (Vision 550) needed - a stator. Of course that was back when it was only about 5 years old so they were available - if spendy. Over $200 for the part IIRC for a bike for which I paid $350.

After that I went back to Hondas.....never ever had electrical issues with my Hondas..... carb parts problems, sure.......but not electrical!

Replace the stator and I'll bet you'll be riding again!

In reply to RozCougarMorbidcamp :

Really glad to see you around again!  Woot!

In reply to MiniDave :

Yeah, as much as I love them, Yamahas are prone to electrical problems. But, it's all I've personally owned, so it's comfortable. 

Even if I replace the stator, which I'm about 70% confident is ok, the wiring is still crispy and needs replaced. That said, I've already found a source for a rebuilt unit for less than $100, just in case. 

I would be sitting, anxiously waiting for the battery to fully charge and ready to start it tomorrow, but I hit a snag. One of the Allen screws holding the case stripped, and I mean STRIPPED, so I've been trying to remedy that all day. If I had a welder or even an acetylene torch it would be no problem, but I have neither. What I do have is the good fortune of being married to a machinist, which usually comes with some out of the box fixes for my screw ups. He works nights, though, so I've been stuck waiting until he woke up.

Here's hoping he's got some tricks to get it to move...

In reply to SV reX :

It's good to be back. Things got a little intense there for a while and I needed to step away. But, this stupid machine made me feel like I needed to come back. 

I'm trying very hard not to be an overly-excited Morbid right now, but...

I got the stator disassembled and in a nice bubble bath (dawn and super hot water); this is after an allen screw stripped so bad I thought the only fix would involve needing new threads tapped. After the bubble bath I made sure it was good and dry with some canned air (have I mentioned how badly we need a new air compressor?) and then gave everything a thorough coating of quick-dry electrical cleaner before calling it a night, pretty convinced that the copper looked too dark to be any good. 

Today I gave everything a really thorough looksie and found some things that my first look waaaay back before I dug into the carbs missed. First, there was 1 wire that was worn through and definitely grounding itself and second, another wire had broken inside if the covering, just inside of the grommet. So, I trimmed everything up until it was at non-broken bits and once again, reached for the multimeter. 

All combinations are registering 0.8 ohms, which is within Yamaha's spec for this system, albeit on the lower end! 6 years, endless frustration and it was a few dollars in wiring all along! 

So tomorrow I'll be diving headfirst into running new wiring from the grommet to the harness while the new battery charges. Then I'll get everything tucked back together we'll enough to see if I've done a good job. Once again, I'm trying really hard to keep excitement from running away with me, but it could be running again, and mostly ride-ready by Sunday! 

Just in time to pack it away for winter...but we're not thinking negative right now, so there is no winter. 

Parts started going back on the bike yesterday! All that's left is trimming and securing wiring, soldering harnesses back on, reinstalling the battery box, fresh fuel, fresh oil and filter and then hit the magic button...

This project has been amazingly confidence building for me, and I really hope that, once it's all together, that confidence doesn't get shattered. I've asked for Jed's help very few times, and those were at the beginning, instead taking the time to slow down and think through hiccups along the way...like when the outer coil of the stator went in crooked and was very very stuck. I fixed it. 

Crossing fingers and lighting candles :)

I genuinely thought today was going to be the day, and it's so close it's going to be hard not to wrap it up and go for a ride tomorrow, but it has to wait until Tuesday. 

One of my kids' friends, we'll call him A, has been deeply involved in hanging out throughout this project, asking questions so he can learn, jumping in to help when needed and just having fun. In fact, he pouts when I do any work when he can't be here (teenagers), but he's a good kid that I like having around, so I give in to the pout. Today, however, he scared the crap out of all of us. 

I had just grabbed A a bandaid for a scraped knuckle (not from the bike) and turned back to securing the battery box, which had been a long battle to get into place. All at once, something crashed into the back of my legs, knocking me forward pretty hard. A had passed out, landing face-down on the garage floor. His parent took him to be evaluated and he is 100% ok, but it stopped progress for the day. 

Tuesday there is no school, so we're planning to speed-run to the finish. Battery, fresh fuel, fresh oil and filter, assorted nuts and bolts and we're DONE (until I replace the headlight, which won't be a huge undertaking).

Here's hoping Tuesday is far less eventful...

I've recently put about 5k miles on a XZ550 rescued from a Detroit backyard so I feel your Yamaha pain. I had constant charging issues (I think I went through 3 used stators) until I replaced the stator and rectifier/regulator w/ Rick's units. 

Unfortunately they cost more than the initial buy-in but I haven't had an issue since. All that wiring & connectors were extra crispy though. I'm not sure if they were the original problem or a result of the cooked R/R. 

Can't say I've ever dealt with the fainting kid issue though - glad he's ok!

Edit:
Realized I documented the Yamaha electric woes here:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/motorcycles-and-bicycles/getting-back-into-motorcycles-why-not-begin-with-4-projects/184587/page1/

In reply to enginenerd :

Fortunately my coil didn't look quite that crispy. I keep calling what I have a stator, but it's technically a generator. I have the weird crossover year where I don't have a stator or alternator, and still have separate regulator and rectifiers. The good part is that my 'stator' should never truly go bad, the bad part is, if it does, sourcing a replacement is a pain in the ass.

When I was cutting and stripping wiring to start replacing it, I did find one place where the covering was gone allowing it to ground out against the case and another spot where the wiring was broken inside of the covering. It's all wired back up to the harnesses and the ohms are still within range, so I'm continuing on. 

As for the fainting kid, it brought up something really important that a lot of people don't know; A low blood sugar event can resemble a seizure. Even with first-responder experience, it's something I can forget about. 

I have heard from A this morning and he's doing well and made it to school, so all is good. 

There may or may not have been a laying-on-the-garage-floor-ugly-crying meltdown last night...

All of the electricals were connected, battery was in, it was all ready...turn the key, flip kill switch to 'on'...press magic button...click. Clickclickclickclick. Turn, stare menacingly over my shoulder at starter solenoid and watch it as it clicks with every press.

Husband looks confused as the starter itself isn't even trying to engage...I'm beginning to lose it. Husband presses on the kick-start and it won't even turn over.

Now, the turn-over-status was something we checked before this project even started because, there's no point trying if she's locked up from sitting. It was freely turning and looking great. Suddenly, I've worked on it and *bam* nothing. So, we clean up, go vote and come back with a slightly less emo me and maybe an idea or 3 in the husband's noggin. 

First, take the case back off, see if something in the reassembly is making it bind. I grab a socket wrench and put it on the wrenchy-deal (technical terms) without knowing husband is about to press on the kick-start. The socket wrench goes flying out of my hands, but the engine goes through several strokes with no binding. Catastrophe #1 averted. 

Now on to the starter. I know jack about electronics. In fact, everything I know has pretty much been learned while doing this little wiring project. Uh-oh, I've wired up the solenoid a little wonky, no worries, husband fixes it and it's still clicking away (groan). Clicking without engaging the starter, still... Husband starts rummaging for some un-insulated pliers while I may or may not have started crying again. He jumps the terminals on the solenoid...not even a click. This is the end of what either of us knows about these things. But, we have help...

Our youngest (15) is, possibly, more nerdy than both of us, and has spent a fair amount of time rewiring R/C cars and whatnot, but they're in the middle of tech week for the school play and unavailable. So I start googling and see that a loose ground is the most likely culprit, but I'm not 100% because, again, I don't know anything about anything and can't understand the overly generalized language on the xs400 forum. I'm also not going to go and post my own thread, that would be too easy. So I wait for the youngest to get home...possibly still crying a bit, but likely not...

An hour or so later, playing video games, I get a thought and look at Jed like we're the dumbest people in the world...I have a KICK START... I don't even need the start button to WORK I just need to be not-lazy. But it's 9pm and he needs to get ready for work, so I make a to do list for today that should have it all ready to start kicking like my life depends on it by the time he wakes up. 

Plans are funny, though, and it's now 24+ hours later and I've not even walked into the garage. This morning I got a call from my cousin that one of her horses has a pretty bad wound, and she's waiting on the vet to call back, but she would feel better with another set of eyes on it, so away I go. (I don't have horses, but I've worked as a wrangler and barn hand most of my life.) The wound, to me, needs to wait for the vet, but the vet is super busy and, while I'm there, the other horse starts choking. Needless to say, my entire day was spent at the farm, where I was very needed, but tomorrow seems to be the last nice day we're likely to have, so it looks like I'm scrambling. 

It's cranking! The starter is cranking!!!!

After a ton of coaxing, I got it to start, but it immediately died. Jed was able to get it started with the kick start, but it won't idle for some reason? The idle set screw doesn't seem to make much of a difference, but it's also old and cranky. 

I've seen some talk that this bike just doesn't idle until it gets good and warm after sitting for a bit, so I tried to take it for a quick spin around the neighborhood...bad idea, I pushed it home from about a quarter mile away. 

BUT, I fixed it. I rewired it. I cleaned and re-sent the carbs. I put it all back together. I found the answer to the stupid clicking problem. I drained the fuel tank,.replaced rotten fuel line, and hooked it all back up. I did it. 

This is the first project like this that I've ever tackled at all, let alone with the knowledge that I would have minimal help. Every time I've worked on car things, except body work, I've only been the assistant. I'm not going to lie, this is an amazing feeling, and one I'm just going to let myself feel all winter long. 

Is this what being a girlboss feels like?

Far too long later with a non-update update. After much research I learned that my bike is the first of the 'malaise era' EPA regulations, meaning the mixture screws were neatly tucked away under flat plates. After having them drilled out so I could access the screws, I set them to 2.5 turns out, which seems to be the recommended starting point after carburetor maintenance. When I try to start it, I can hear it 'coughing' and trying to fire, but it's just not quite enough. I'm going to turn the mixture up a bit and see if that helps because setting the intake on fire with starting fluid certainly hasn't (yes, it's really happened, more than once). 

Setting things on fire is usually really fun. Setting carbs on fire is a lot less fun. 

Glad to see more progress!

After sitting for so long, I'd suggest pulling the carbs and cleaning them again.  Make sure everything gets put back correctly.  Since it didn't run right initially after going through them, I'd double check that you got everything in there properly. 
 

sounds like fuel to me though and not spark. 
 

Try spraying starting fluid in the intake when it's struggling to run and see what happens. 

In reply to jfryjfry :

starting fluid in the intake is what has resulted in fire. I appreciate the suggestion to run through the carbs again, but trust me, I have. I've ran through the carbs with a fine-tooth comb at least 5 times. Like I said, the fuel mixture couldn't be adjusted until I drilled out the screws, so that's where I am, now. 

Glad to hear this project is still going. Most carbs of this era were indeed tamper proof as you've discovered and it's especially fun when the service manuals say "do not adjust" instead of providing settings.

When you had the carbs apart did you happen to check if all the jets were the stock size?  

In reply to enginenerd :

to my knowledge it was the second time the carbs had ever been apart, and I have documentation for the first time, so yes, they should be stock size. This was the first time I've worked on carbs, though, so I could be wrong. 

If I wasn't spending all of my $$ on a Jeep, I'd be throwing a bunch toward Rick's...ugh