Twin_Cam wrote:
RossD wrote:
How does Europe deal with drinking and age.? Most places don't have an age limit over there? Do they have more drinking related incidences and problems or less?
The drinking and driving is always a big no-no in my book.
Pretty sure the public transit system is a little better there, too, i.e. it exists. Easier to get home wasted when you can hop on a bus or subway anywhere and get to within walking distance of your bed.
And also, the drinking age in this country is way high. Totally stupid.
I believe the legal age here is 18, but I havn't seen anyone check. Add that to a local bar (called "The Black Hole") that has a "down stairs" for such things...
The biggest laws I like (and a lot of people don't) is the "zero tolerance" law for drinking and driving. If you've had ANY to drink, you cant even ride a bike (bike fine is only like $50 but still).
In answer to the public transportation: It is WAAAAAAAAAAY better here. Its not even necessary to own a car! (honestly) And its super cheap too!
The biggest difference though isn't the reduction of alcoholism (because I think alcoholism is a bit higher here), but the reduction of alcohol related accidents. (I have yet to see an alcohol related accident) The first thing the cops do when you get in an accident is give breathalyzers.
Oh, and I've never caught the neighborhood kids puking in my driveway when their parents are out of town here either... Cant say the same for San Antonio.
Curmudgeon wrote:
N Sperlo hit it right on the head, with one caveat: the police are not supposed to 'interpret' or decide which laws to enforce and which ones not to enforce. That's why you can get a ticket for 2mph over the speed limit (and yes a buddy of mine got one for 37 in a 35).
Sure they do it anyway. But any half assed lawyer could mop the floor with any incident involving injuries or property damage stemming from underage drinking or for that matter any other law 'winked' at by the police. So any time a police officer uses 'discretion' he/she is literally playing roulette with their future.
Everything you say is true, and at the same time, if discretion were not exercised regularly, it would be impossible for a police cruiser to complete a single lap of its patrol (probably displaying my lack of knowledge; I don't even know whether a patrol could be divided into laps...) for stopping to bust every fourth person on the street.
It's certainly not an easy call for the officer in many cases, and the repercussions can be serious depending on the issue, but it just doesn't hold that discretion isn't a normal part of the job, for better or worse.
I suppose if we tried to do complete adherence, we'd see a more careful populace more afraid of setting a foot wrong, and a lot more clamor to change laws generally seen as unjust or otherwise dumb. Personally, I think it's impossible as any more than a thought exercise.
In reply to ransom:
So the officer would be black flagged?
I have no horse in this race... but I think the problem with drinking in the US is purely cultural as mentioned before...
I didn't grow up around alcohol in the house... dad grew up some flavor of Quaker and it wasn't in his house either (and I'm fairly sure he's never even tasted wine)... outside the house beer was around (I grew up a military brat and you can't do any sort of military "non official" function without tons of beer... and naturally with that comes "beer culture"
I will drink on rare occasion, never been drunk, never will... I don't like to take even some prescribed medicines or sleep meds as I don't like to not be in control... I'm also the guy the refers to the smokers huddling around all smoking as "drug addicts" and just don't understand the joy some people have in not being in control...
as for law enforcement... why is there not an outcry to enforce all the stupid laws on the books... here are a few from FL...
http://www.bitoffun.com/stupid_laws_florida.htm
In reply to N Sperlo:
An endless set of drive-through penalties for the officers and populace alike...
The underlying issue here is that a person's judgement isn't fully developed at 18. I used to think mine was when I was 18, but I literally cringe at some of the stunts my 18-21 year old adult self pulled and got away with.
It takes experience to understand responsible limits. Hopefully that experience comes without any severe penalties to you or the people around you.
Agreeing or disagreeing with the law doesn't matter in that it's still the law, but you have to ask yourself WHY is it the law?
And the answer to that is that many generations of kids have proven they simply don't have the facilties to be turned loose drunk.
As to the you give them a gun and let them fight a war argument. There's a couple of things that come with that 1) adult supervision and 2) training. Things totally lacking with most underage drinking. Of course you could call beer busts in the back pasture training, but that would be trial and error training instead of real training.
I drank, a lot until I hit college and then watching the stupid kids around me made say that I don't want to be THAT person. I still drink, but not to excess. And I refuse to drink wine as that's just spoiled grape juice.
In reply to carguy123:
I believe I could properly supervise and train 18 year olds to drink. Never have, but I'll give er' a shot. (pun intended)
i'm just going to jump in to say:
"It was 2 AM on a Wednesday. Take it inside and lower the volume, you shiny happy people. I gotta go to work in a few hours. And yes, it was me who called the cops. berkeley you."
I was already 21 when all these laws were passed. To this very day, when I hear of someone arrested for drinking at 19-20yrs. of age, my reaction is, "what the-??..oh, yeah-I forgot.". When I received "that call" from the ex the night my daughter got busted, I actually said, "So what? She's 19."
Much profanity erupted from the phone.
In that case, a bunch of 18-20yr olds were having a party in a garage (door shut), and the cops were called when a couple of 16yr olds were refused entry. My daughter (and her boyfriend) both blew less than .02..they were splitting a single 12oz beer just to "fit in". Since they weren't intoxicated, they got off with a fine & community service.
Who was it that said lower the drinking age to 16 and raise the driving age to 21? I could go for that..but I don't think the US has the mass transit capabilities to make it work.
This is why people hate cops.
They are hated for enforcing the law? That's their job. why shoot the messenger? Oh, that's right; it's easier.
You want the laws changed so 16 y/o's can drink? Go to your legislator.
