300+ hp, rwd and it's a....Kia?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I hope it's a success, but look at the conversation we've just been having re the Chevy SS going out of production. As far as Kia Hyndai have come in the last 10 years, they are still not BMW or Mercedes. Those companies seem to be able to sell a large 4 door rear drive sedan, but the SS was a flop. It's going to be interesting to see how this does, as nice as it is I'm not sure what this is offering that the SS didn't.

In all honesty, the SS was a flop because of GM. How many people on this board were surprised to hear about this car in the last year? How long has it been out? How many ads have you seen for it? The SS was an absolute lack of GM backing. ITs like they WANTED That car to fail so they wouldn't have to try anymore.

Bobzilla wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I hope it's a success, but look at the conversation we've just been having re the Chevy SS going out of production. As far as Kia Hyndai have come in the last 10 years, they are still not BMW or Mercedes. Those companies seem to be able to sell a large 4 door rear drive sedan, but the SS was a flop. It's going to be interesting to see how this does, as nice as it is I'm not sure what this is offering that the SS didn't.

In all honesty, the SS was a flop because of GM. How many people on this board were surprised to hear about this car in the last year? How long has it been out? How many ads have you seen for it? The SS was an absolute lack of GM backing. ITs like they WANTED That car to fail so they wouldn't have to try anymore.

They never wanted to sell it outside of police vehicles. Originally it was never going to be for public consumption. The only reason they did was to meet Australian Union contracts.

I am so confused by Hyundai/Kia. I test drove an '11 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 Track Pack back when it was new. It was so dang good, I almost bought it over my Mustang 5.0.

But every other Hyundai/Kia I have driven since then feels like it's been assembled out of tin cans and balsa wood. I don't understand how they got one car so right and everything else so... cheap-feeling?

Back on topic: I wonder what the driving dynamics of this Stinger are like? Hyundai Genesis awesomeness or Kia Soul trash?

In reply to Sky_Render:

The same guy who helped set up stuff like the E30 M3, the E34 M5, the E39 M5, the E46 M3, the E60 M5, the E90 M3, and the F10 M5 set this thing up on a variety of twisty test areas in Europe, including the Nurburgring. It has some very big shoes to fill in that department, so it will probably be even better than the Genesis Coupe.

Sky_Render wrote: I am so confused by Hyundai/Kia. I test drove an '11 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 Track Pack back when it was new. It was *so dang good*, I almost bought it over my Mustang 5.0. But every other Hyundai/Kia I have driven since then feels like it's been assembled out of tin cans and balsa wood. I don't understand how they got one car so right and everything else so... cheap-feeling?

But even that car they messed up--they got that particular package right, but the Genesis coupe in general was... confusing. I test drove one, very shortly, and to me it seemed like it was having an identity crisis. It was built on a luxury car chassis, but it had economy car appointments. It was a muscle car size without the power. Too big to be a true sports car. It was like it looked at a Miata, G35/37 coupe, and Mustang, and said "Yeah, one of those!" and then fell on its face trying to decide which one.

Which was unfortunate because it is a decent car. It just didn't do anything any better than any of its competition, IMHO. (FWIW, my search ended up with me getting nothing as my situation changed. I don't think the Genesis would have won though)

In reply to mtn:

That's a very good description of it. I felt the same way when I drove it, which is why I went next door to the Ford dealership and bought an '11 Mustang GT off the lot.

The0retical wrote:

G_Body_Man wrote: Houston, we have liftback!

Oh that's dirty...

SOLD! Berk, this may be the first time I ever buy a brand new car. I miss the liftback my SAAB 9000 had, and the only real car to come close to that car that had a liftback was the Mazda6. The BMW GT thingy and the Honda Sportcross things don't count for me since they are just CUV's on low profile tires.

This looks like a proper car though. Minus the chrome fender scoops, I like it's style.

I'll be eagerly awaiting reviews of this thing.

Sky_Render wrote: In reply to mtn: That's a very good description of it. I felt the same way when I drove it, which is why I went next door to the Ford dealership and bought an '11 Mustang GT off the lot.

I have often wondered how different that car would have been with the 420hp 5.0L Tau V8.

Autoweek's take on it is interesting. I don't necessarily disagree:

Autoweek said: To most eyes this is a great looking sporty sedan. It’s rear-wheel drive, looks muscular and has a roomy interior. Kia wants to move upmarket and the Stinger -- on paper -- looks like it has the chops to get the job done. Kia will offer two engines, a 255-hp turbo four and a 365-hp twin-turbo V-6, each combined with an eight-speed automatic transmission. The fastest Stinger is expected to reach 60 mph in just more than 5 seconds. In looking over the car, though, I wonder who will buy it. Does anyone look to Kia for BMW-like sports sedans? And isn’t this what Kia’s sibling, Hyundai, is supposed to be doing with the new Genesis brand? The Stinger could be the next Volkswagen Phaeton, a car that takes the brand to places it doesn’t belong.

I don't disagree either, but I think in some respects Kia is still a young enough brand that it is relatively anonymous still--it still can forge a new identity.

But the point still stands that Kia does not have the panache of a BMW--I have to imagine that 99% of BMW buyers don't care about it being a sporty car; they care that it is a luxury brand and says "BMW" on the front. What is enticing your average Kia buyer to this car over the Optima (or Camry or Malibu or anything else)? They don't care about RWD. Maybe even consider it to be a bad thing. I don't think that Kia has any rabid fans that will buy it just because it is a Kia, like you have with Dodge/Chrysler (300/Charger).

I don't think that it will be a Phaeton--that would be the K900--but it certainly doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Hell, the only non-luxury RWD sedans in recent times are the aforementioned Charger/300 (and the Chevy SS and Caprice, but we're not counting those).

The0retical wrote:

G_Body_Man wrote: Houston, we have liftback!

Oh that's dirty...

Id that a liftback or hatchback?

In reply to Ian F:

It's possible that'll be the outcome. On the other hand, I can't think of the last time I looked at new a sub 40k car and said, "If I was going to get a new car today I'd have that." Even the Mazda6 doesn't do that for me and good lord I do love Mazdas.

On paper, after looking at the list of people involved and specs, this has quite a bit of potential.

Is this a brand new platform, or just platform sharing between Genesis and Kia? If it's a shared platform, I'm not so sure Kia had much to really say about how it fits with their brand identity as the amortization of cost may have been a higher priority. The MSRP will tell us how Kia really feels about it. If they price it like a European premium car, it will probably not sell well. If they continue their tradition of providing more standard content at a lower price than the competition, then I can see it stealing some high end Accord/Maxima sales.

Wall-e wrote:

The0retical wrote:

G_Body_Man wrote: Houston, we have liftback!

Oh that's dirty...

Id that a liftback or hatchback?

Pot-ay-to / Pot-ah-to

Without a closed view from the angle in the photo above, its hard to see how much it the sheet metal levels off behind the glass, but based on how close it appears the glass comes to the rear edge...

I would call it a hatchback.

mtn wrote: But the point still stands that Kia does not have the panache of a BMW--I have to imagine that 99% of BMW buyers don't care about it being a sporty car; they care that it is a luxury brand and says "BMW" on the front. What is enticing your average Kia buyer to this car over the Optima (or Camry or Malibu or anything else)? They don't care about RWD. Maybe even consider it to be a bad thing. I don't think that Kia has any rabid fans that will buy it just because it is a Kia, like you have with Dodge/Chrysler (300/Charger).

This right here is what Hyunkia will have to fight against if they want to make their own "luxury" brand.

In reply to Sky_Render:

I thought Hyundai tried that with Genesis? I seem to remember the early cars didn't have a Hyundai badge on them anywhere.

Ian F wrote: In reply to Sky_Render: I thought Hyundai tried that with Genesis? I seem to remember the early cars didn't have a Hyundai badge on them anywhere.

They didnt...then they did, and now they dont again. Hey, their image crisis is real....but its great for buyers!

In reply to Ian F: Looks like the Genesis has its own website now: Genesis site

The genesis is no longer part of the models that can be built and priced on the Hyundai website. If you click on the genesis from the Hyundai site it takes you to the Genesis site.

Looking at the genesis site they are definitely trying to compete with the luxury brands both in design and service.

Wall-e wrote:

The0retical wrote:

G_Body_Man wrote: Houston, we have liftback!

Oh that's dirty...

Id that a liftback or hatchback?

Definitely a liftback, not even close to a hatchback.

Oh no you got Nick started!

We just had the first one of these roll off the trailer at work. Man, for a Kia, that's a really good looking car, the transport driver was thoroughly impressed with how it drives from his limited time behind the wheel. Considering we get Audi's and porches, that's some pretty high praise

Bobzilla wrote: In all honesty, the SS was a flop because of GM. How many people on this board were surprised to hear about this car in the last year? How long has it been out? How many ads have you seen for it? The SS was an absolute lack of GM backing. ITs like they WANTED That car to fail so they wouldn't have to try anymore.

To be fair, GM has a long and storied history of making interesting cars, then refusing to try to sell them, so they could quietly stop making them while claiming that nobody wanted them. Usually after spending a lot of money retooling and redesigning to fix their glaring flaws.

In reply to daeman:

Wait these are out already?!?

daeman wrote: We just had the first one of these roll off the trailer at work. Man, for a Kia, that's a really good looking car, the transport driver was thoroughly impressed with how it drives from his limited time behind the wheel. Considering we get Audi's and porches, that's some pretty high praise

How the hell do you have access to these already?

I work for a transport and logistics company, don't want to say much more than that till I know the details as to how and why it was where it was.

All I know is I was surprised as hell to see it, as were alot of other staff.

I believe they go on sale here around July, which means they should begin to trickle trickle through over the next couple of months to allow adequate stock to be on hand for the release. Given the buzz around it today, I'd say they'll need as much stock as they can get.