A Story of My Grandfather, the Con Man

So, the one really good thing about being unemployed is that I have free time to really sit down to transcribing and editing my grandfathers stories. I'm planning to turn these into a book of his memoirs. Here's one I thought you guys would appreciate.

This is the story of how my grandfather got the Colt 1911 .45 pistol that is still in my family today (actually, the one I'm firing in my profile picture). This happened while he was stationed in the South Pacific in WWII.

The story of how Jim ended up getting the 1911 .45 Pistol

When I went overseas, I was issued a .38 caliber revolver.

I was somewhere in the South Pacific, and some guys had been out drinking beer and they came in and my gun was hanging up, with ammunition, right by my bed. Everybody had different firearms.

Somebody said, “Oh, I need a gun.”

And someone else said, “Oh here,” and he took mine. I wasn’t there. I’d probably gone out to a movie or something.

They went out and they were shooting. I don’t think there were any Japanese around there at that time.

When they got all through shooting at things, I wasn’t there, but I figure the problem was that they were concerned for somebody being mad at them for shooting up the living spaces. Somebody may have yelled at them, or said, “report over here,” or something, and they ran, took the guns, right as they were on the waters edge at the ocean, and threw them in.

The next morning I’m there, and these guys are kind of holding there heads, and I said, “Where the hell is my gun? Who took my gun?”

“We had to loan it to Charlie.”

I said, “You loaned him my gun? On whose authority?”

“Oh… frankly, we lost it.”

They had to replace it. At first they told me that was my problem, not their’s.

I told them, “Sure, you’re correct. It is my problem.”

And I went, and I found a guy who was military police who was around. And I brought the guy over and said, “These guys want to tell you about this gun…”

He interrupted, “Were you out shooting around last night.”

And they all looked at me, and I said, “No, it wasn’t that. As a matter of fact, they were helping me fire one of these new .45’s that the Army has. They have access to the supply officers.”

He said, “Oh, that’s a good idea. If you find out how it works, let me know. I’d be interested in that.”

So the next thing you know, we’re over at the Army camp, which was a few miles from where we were. And one of these guys had a friend there, and the friend went in and came out with this .45. He didn’t say a word. And I didn’t say a word. He left it on the counter. Next thing you know, I picked it up, put in my holster, and walked away.

And that’s how I got the gun.

...

Later on, I got hurt and I was being sent back. I had my .45 on, and I had clips in my belt and in my flight jacket, of .45 ammunition. I probably had 40 or 50 rounds of ammunition on me. The guy putting me on the airplane took my .45 out and said, “You got any more ammunition?”

I said, “Well, yeah.”

He emptied all the ammunition out of it, and from the clips and everything. Emptied the gun, cleared it, and stuck it back in my holster. It came back with me, and that’s how I kept it.

cool story and cooler project...never got to know either of my grandpas, but from what ive heard from the rents and my aunts and uncles, both had some pretty wicked stories to tell. My paternal grandfather worked at the Jim Beam distillery in Cincinnati ... nuff said

my Maternal Grandfather was in korea, and carried a Thompson. I guess his aim was too bad to use a rifle, so he was the only guy in his unit to carry one. He has 2 purple hearts. I guess he used to wig out with night terrors, and flip the bed mattresses over - with my grandma still on em - and turn em into cover and then return fire in his sleep. My grandma loves to tell those stories. Perhaps I need to get to work on a project of my own...

My grandfather is a badass. He flew off of carriers in the south pacific, was in Cuba during the missile crisis, chatted with Elvis about driving trucks, looped the Golden Gate Bridge, pulled a sawed-off shotgun on a corrupt southern cop, was a congressman, and is the ultimate reason why the Navy switched to the FA-18 instead of refitting the F-14's.

The short version of that was: he test flew an F-18 while in congress. Admirals were at congressional hearings lobbying to retrofit the F-14s instead of using the F-18. They claimed the F-18 couldn't do things it could. He got them to admit they'd never flown one and state that if someone in the room had actually flown one, they would be the most knowledgeable person in the room about the aircraft. He then revealed that he actually had flown both aircraft and could attest to the superior capabilities of the F-18.

woah your GP was a baddas! are you sure your grandpa never starred in a TV action drama about ninjas disguised as texas rangers

Problem:

By WWII, the 1911 wasn't a new pistol.

It was relatively new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_1911

Taken from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_revolver

"U.S. civilians arms companies of Colt and Remington as well as other companies were producing M1911 pistols under contract for the U.S. Army, but even with the additional production there existed a shortage of M1911s. The interim solution was to ask the two major American producers of revolvers to adapt their heavy-frame civilian revolvers to the standard .45 ACP pistol cartridge."

and the S&W 38:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10

The Victory Model was also used by United States forces during WWII, being chambered in the well-known and popular .38 Special cartridge. The Victory Model was a standard-issue sidearm for US Navy and Marine aircrews, and was also used by guards at factories and defense installations throughout the United States during the war. Some of these revolvers remained in service well into the 1990s with units of the US Armed Forces, including the Coast Guard. Some Lend-Lease Victory Model revolvers originally chambered for the British .38/200 were returned to the U.S. and rechambered to fire the more popular and more powerful .38 Special ammunition, and such revolvers are usually so marked on their barrels. Rechambering of .38-200 cylinders to .38 Special results in oversized chambers which may cause problems.

Seems like it would be "new" since they were initially difficult to find and probably in scarce supply until the production really ramped up.

confuZion3 wrote: It was relatively new.

The 1911 was introduced to Army service in 1911. Navy and USMC shortly after. It's a sticking point that's bugging me in an otherwise good story.

New here might be relative. Like when someone says "brand new" and they are referring to a company has been around for a hundred years.

Writing down stories from your life is something a lot of people should do. Everyone should really encourage their grandparents to do it.

I know my grandfather did a little of it. He was actually a pretty accomplished mechanic on Model A's!! It was also crazy to realize that when he was young when in he lived in Iowa, across the river was basically the "old west", like in the movies.

My step father could also tell (and does) some really crazy stories. One I remember is him flying a Corsair in the Caribbean when the oil plug fell out and dumped the oil. He looked around and he just happened to be flying over the USS Midway and it was in the process of recovering planes (old carriers could only one thing at a time). So he jumped into the pattern and landed! Crazy thing is, many many years later he is flying over the delta in Northern California, looks down, and yup, there is the USS Midway. He said he really wanted to go down and do a touch and go.

i think in this case "new" means "not used yet" and not "this years model". AFAIK the 1911 was made until the 1991 came out. certainly they didn't stock the entire armed forces with one year's production....

We're losing a thousand WWII veterans every single day. Soon they'll all be gone. I hope you do compile your grandfather's memoirs. Otherwise, the real history of WWII and the time period will die with them.

Osterizer wrote: The 1911 was introduced to Army service in 1911. Navy and USMC shortly after. It's a sticking point that's bugging me in an otherwise good story.

I'm reporting it as my grandfather told it. The guy is 85 years old and remembering things from over 50 years ago. I'm sure some of the details aren't perfect. It's probably safe to say that he doesn't remember exactly what was said by who.

He was a naval aviator, and it's probably a safe bet that they did not get the latest and greatest in sidearms issued to them. I think it's a safe bet that he remembers what sidearm he was originally issued (hell, he might remember the serial number, I think he still knows the serial number of the first rifle he was issued in ROTC) and that he remembers the generalities of how he got that pistol.

Or it could be that "new" simply meant that a shipment of them had made their way out to that section of the pacific. He's got more than a few stories about materials being in short supply way out there. Heck, the story I'm in the middle of transcribing now is about selling a case of whiskey to a bunch of marines at the front, without taking any profit, in order to schmooze them into getting working radios in his plane.

Ive been trying to get my father to dictate his stories into a recorder. I gave up trying to write them down. Crotchety old fart says "no one would belive them" He is 78 and still has a photgraphic memory and a gift for names, dates, and details. He was an aircraft mechanic and tought most of the third world to fix C130's.

That's an awesome story. I commend you for taking these conversations and writing them down. Chuck had the same idea about transcribing his father's stories but did not get around to doing it and his father has passed. He regrets not acting sooner on his idea to record his dad's stories. They were often quite interesting and always amusing.

I hope we get to read some more about your grandpa!

Great story.

Unfortunately, WWII took it's toll on my Grandfather. He couldn't take the memory of why his friends died and he didn't...or maybe because of some of the stuff that he had to do. He was a tough,WV coal mining, no nonsense,fight at the drop of a hat,functioning alcoholic with diabetes.

He would get drunk and start telling stories about the War, but we were young then, and usually found somewhere else to be. I wish that we could've sat down and talked more than we did, but by the time when I could visit (and know when to visit), he was too far gone.

After he died, my Uncle told me a WWII story that my Grandfather was running a fence line in France and came across a German soldier, he promptly made the German finish the fence, and then killed him.

Somewhat related story of him; he was driving along and someone had their brights on behind him, he brake checked a couple of times...still bright lights. He sped up, blocked the road ahead, got out and leveled his gun at the driver...took his hammer, and smashed the headlights.

I will say that when he wasn't blitzed, he was a funny, caring grandfather.

I remember finding this old set of brass knuckles at my grandfathers brothers place and they had this weird slit down the middle of them.
I asked him about them and he said he had pulled them off a German soldier during the war. He said they stopped a patrol and when they searched them he found the knuckles in a soldiers shirt pocket. At the time the slit was occupied by a knife edge that was embedded in the knuckles vertically so that a punch would deliver a nasty cut. He showed them to his commanding officer who asked which soldier they came off of. He pointed out the soldier and was ordered to put the knuckles on and punch to soldier. He said the one punch split the guys face open from temple to jaw. Afterwords he slipped them in his pocket and later on took the blade out.

Somewhere I have my Grandfathers photo ID badge from when he was posted where they did the nuclear bomb testing.

Here's a tip for when you're talking to your grandparents:

Ask them the names of their parents and grandparents, where they were born and where they're buried. If you ever get into genealogy, those little bits of info can save you a year's work. If they were immigrants, ask what year they came over, what port they entered and the name of the ship.

I wish that I had asked my grandfather what his father's first name was and where he was buried. My grandfather died in 1985 and no one in the family knows the answers to those questions.

My Grandfather wrote down his memoirs too, and it was the greatest book I ever read. There were so many things I learned that I never about him. Unfortunately, I didn't get a copy until after he died so I couldn't talk to him about it.

The coolest story was when he was a teenager in Holland in WW2 and how he and two friends escaped from a German work camp, hid on a train taking it half way across Germany and then snuck back into Holland. They hid out in his uncle's barn until the end of the war, occasionally sneaking out to sabotage the Nazi transport trucks that were lined up filled with the food from the village, ready to take it all to Germany, leaving the town with no food, or other such stuff.

There were also hilarious stories like the time he traded my mom for a cow. My mom was just a few months old when my grandparents went to visit some friends of theirs who had just immigrated to the same part of Canada. Their friends were unable to have kids, and the woman was making a big deal about how lucky my grandparents were to have two beautiful daughters, and "oh, how I'd do anything to have just one beautiful daughter", and just generally overdoing it. My grandfather, being quite a sarcastic joker, said "I really like your cow, I really wish I had such a beautiful cow, let's trade". The woman, who was holding my mom at the time, jumped up and shouted "yes, yes, take the cow. Thank you so much". My grandfather was shocked that the woman completely missed the sarcasm, and told the woman he was kidding, but the woman refused to give my mom back. After some words from my grandfather, her husband convinced her it was not a good idea to keep my mom, and reluctantly gave her back.

I'm disappointed none of my other grandparents did the same thing.

Bob

Osterizer wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: It was relatively new.

The 1911 was introduced to Army service in 1911. Navy and USMC shortly after. It's a sticking point that's bugging me in an otherwise good story.

so In 1911 it was like BAM everyone got a new gun and the old ones were thrown away?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_sidearm_did_the_US_Navy_issue_fighter_pilots

In the civil war the it was not rare for the early fights to be fought with all sorts of wacky weapons.. 1841 springfields were used for many years.

Do you think in WWI that all US army forces had 03 springfields? I'll put big money on the fact that many had krag jorgensens still...

It's the us military, they don't move fast.

edit: I meant 1842 springfield not 1841.. there was no 1841 springfield musket.. there was this 1841 crazy short rifle that the zouaves liked.. but.. silly 2 bander weapon..

A few years ago my grandfather was "interviewed" by his cousin about his time during WWII under the condition the tapes were not shared with anyone until after his death. I was enlisted to help with converting the tapes to DVD to preserve them but was not permitted to listen to any of the content. My grandfather has always been a pretty straight shooter so Im desperately curious about what he has to say that he doesnt want to share while he is with us. I do know he was a radio operator on a Flying Fortress and that's about it. My other grandfather was oddly enough a navy man on a destroyer which was sunk during the war and he had to swim/float for days to survive. He still loves to go boating/fishing on small vessels on lakes but any boat on open ocean makes him desperately seasick. Wish someone told me that before I planned my wedding on a boat....he popped alot of pills and pressed through it.

My 2 grandfathers are polar opposites, one very flashy very "60s rat pack" the other very stoic and hard working blue collar, but both are amazing and I consider myself lucky to be pushing 40 with all of my grandparents still alive. I just wish I could get their stories out of them like Salanis has with his grandfather.

ignorant wrote:

Osterizer wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: It was relatively new.

The 1911 was introduced to Army service in 1911. Navy and USMC shortly after. It's a sticking point that's bugging me in an otherwise good story.

so In 1911 it was like BAM everyone got a new gun and the old ones were thrown away? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_sidearm_did_the_US_Navy_issue_fighter_pilots In the civil war the it was not rare for the early fights to be fought with all sorts of wacky weapons.. 1841 springfields were used for many years. Do you think in WWI that all US army forces had 03 springfields? I'll put big money on the fact that many had krag jorgensens still... It's the us military, they don't move fast.

No, but in the 1940s there sure were a lot around.

Meh, Salanis is right that 50 years fuzzes one's memory.

Osterizer wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Osterizer wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: It was relatively new.

The 1911 was introduced to Army service in 1911. Navy and USMC shortly after. It's a sticking point that's bugging me in an otherwise good story.

so In 1911 it was like BAM everyone got a new gun and the old ones were thrown away? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_sidearm_did_the_US_Navy_issue_fighter_pilots In the civil war the it was not rare for the early fights to be fought with all sorts of wacky weapons.. 1841 springfields were used for many years. Do you think in WWI that all US army forces had 03 springfields? I'll put big money on the fact that many had krag jorgensens still... It's the us military, they don't move fast.

No, but in the 1940s there sure were a lot around. Meh, Salanis is right that 50 years fuzzes one's memory.

http://thehighroad.us/showthread.php?p=2445411 <--- navy pilots most frequently issued S&W's

http://books.google.com/books?id=5jnqqkW85u8C&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=smith+and+wesson+navy+pilot+victory&source=bl&ots=riWkJR5Msf&sig=cXl4bVI9g9KFuITimMithilXoLI&hl=en&ei=tY_JSfG-NZ7ayAXOxpHNAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5082585

http://books.google.com/books?id=gYnKvS3OaIYC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=smith+and+wesson+navy+pilot+victory&source=bl&ots=rhgR5IbkNM&sig=6S4vGiPXW43JesxFZbGqrpHLW0o&hl=en&ei=tY_JSfG-NZ7ayAXOxpHNAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result

Sure they were around, but the starting sidearm was a the model 10 victory... I used to be a gun geek, even worked for remington for a bit..

I need to go back to my bleeding heart liberal self now.. bad ignorant.. no more guns.......

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5082585

more gun geek stuff.. Geez.. I really need a C&R FFL..

no I don't..

Yes I do..

aww crap.

don't you know, ignorant? its ok for you to have all the guns you want, just not everyone else. someone has to protect the others from themselves, or something