"Accident Response Fee" - Scam, or not?

Apparently, local municipalities are using dubious tactics to increase revenues:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/07/accident-victims-increasingly-hit-crash-taxes/

I have no issue with perpetrators footing the bill, but the victims?

Question posed with the known caveat that there are multiple sides to every issue.

I was involved in an accident that totalled my car about 8 years ago. The police asked me if I needed an ambulance. Since I wasn't bleeding, I said no. Unfortunately, whenever there is an accident...an ambulance or paramedics are called. The same police that "offered to call" the ambulance, "suggested" that since I didn't use it, I should ignore the bill (for $XX) when it came.

BTW, in the town I live and a different town where I own property, SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL FEES have recently been instituted. Even tho where I live I pay a fee (as part of my utility bill) for garbage collection, I now HAVE to pay an ADDITIONAL solid waste disposal fee for things like that broken easy chair that was placed at the curb or those tree branches that blew down in the last windstorm.

I think if they sent me one of those bills, I would be camped at the mayors office the next morning. As far a the solid waste fee, they have those for commercial businesses around here. If they tried to institute that for residences the amount of trash picked up at local dirt roads would increase drastically. There's still quite a few rednecks around here.

One fee the local PD instituted that I don't object to is for responding to false burglar alarms. You get two a year. After that you get a bill for $60 for every false alarm.

Around here my neighbors burn their trash regularly. Foul-smelling burnt plastic ash rains down on my cars and everything else for two days after, not to mention the smell while they are burning is bad enough I can't even escape it by going inside, I have actually had to leave my 'hood in order to breathe. I can only imagine a solid waste disposal fee would make that situation worse.

integraguy wrote: BTW, in the town I live and a different town where I own property, SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL FEES have recently been instituted. Even tho where I live I pay a fee (as part of my utility bill) for garbage collection, I now HAVE to pay an ADDITIONAL solid waste disposal fee for things like that broken easy chair that was placed at the curb or those tree branches that blew down in the last windstorm.

I have no trouble with that, take it to the dump pay the fee and move on. Most garbage trucks are only setup for household waste anyway.

Around here the Fire Dept can charge to come to your house. Insurance policies actually even have up to $500 in coverage for such a charge.

But I do think it's crappy that we are already paying taxes for those services, than would have to pay again to use them.

z31maniac wrote: Around here the Fire Dept can charge to come to your house. Insurance policies actually even have up to $500 in coverage for such a charge. But I do think it's crappy that we are already paying taxes for those services, than would have to pay again to use them.

BUT is your community paying the needed taxes? It's a big thing here in Michigan, one neighborhood might pay $2500 annually another within three miles may pay $2500 every QUARTER! Usually the more affluent neighborhoods get pounded with the bigger bills, but I have seen some properties get rolled because the new subdivision on the other side of town is chock full of empty McMansions and SOMEONE needs to pay the bills.

One of the problems with the solid waste disposal fee is that IF I never have any solid waste to dispose of (in my previous post I used a broken chair, but I have never had something like that put at the curb) I still get charged. To me, that's like making folks who no longer drive pay a road use tax. In the yearly notice for the Fl. property, it says you can "appeal" the SWDF, IF you can prove you never had any. How in the pukk do you prove you never had any trash...AFTER THE FACT?

These fees are creative ways to increase revenue without raising taxes, because if you are a politician and your name gets attached to a piece of legislation raising revenue/taxes...the next election you are voted out of office.

And I am assessed a solid waste disposal fee on the utility bill at the duplex I am renting. Sort of a double garbage collection fee.

When I was running rescue the city charged charged $100 for a BLS call and $150 for an ALS call (basic and advanced life support) if you were actually transported to the hospital. Other than generating money they were trying to cut down on the "taxi" rides to the hospital.

I forget where to find it online, but I saw something a few months back about a less well to do family (in georgia IIRC) having a house fire and NOT calling the fire department because they were worried it would cost them money. (it wouldnt have)

The impact of this behavior is that it could result in a reluctance to use emergency response infrastructure until it is too late and snowballs.

I'm sure this event never happened, because as mentioned on another thread, the insurance claims adjusters would never deny coverage for this.

That said, a whole lot of folk call 911 for stupid stuff, just to get it for free. From bandaids to asprins. Talk to some paramedics about the numbers of frivolous calls they go out on. Placing a fee on those calls would go a long ways to reducing them.

Tax support on those services is often incomplete. It pays for some of the costs, but not all. Then there's the volunteer units. They just have to beg and offer fairs and raffles and bull roasts, for they get zero financial support many times.

foxtrapper wrote: I'm sure this event never happened, because as mentioned on another thread, the insurance claims adjusters would never deny coverage for this.

What is your deal? Get a grip...seriously. Right, so insurance companies are there to pay for everything, no matter what, no matter how much it costs, no matter if it's necessary or no matter if it's part of the contract or not. Just ask for money and ye' shall receive. Wait, I need to go water our companies money tree before I finish typing this....

Anyhow, I have seen these charges becoming much more prevelant recently. I agree with what nickel_dime said. Without a doubt, they're looking to raise funds, but they're also hoping to cut down on unnecessary calls. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work out that way and leaves everyone in a bad spot.

Klayfish wrote: What is your deal?

That I have a sense of humor. You don't. Seriously.

Get over yourself and your self righteousness. Recognize a tongue in cheek comment when you see it. Especially when taken in the context of the rest of the message.

I don't have a problem with a nominal fee to keep BS calls down but when you are paying $1200 for a 5 minute ambulance ride that you dont really need it all comes down to making the money. Without getting into the insurance argument again. I already serious enough overinflated medical bills come in from the EMT's. I will never ride in one if I am consious and alert. I would call a taxi first.

I just got a minor speeding ticket over the weekend. Guilty. I was thinking of going to court to plead my case and throw myself on the mercy of the court. If I pay the ticket without going to court it is $131. If I go to court the minimum court fee is $106 or some such nonsence. So unless the ticket is dismissed I will be paying at least $237. I was hoping to face my charges without having to pay just to plead my case. Some BS right there.

nickel_dime wrote: When I was running rescue the city charged charged $100 for a BLS call and $150 for an ALS call (basic and advanced life support) if you were actually transported to the hospital. Other than generating money they were trying to cut down on the "taxi" rides to the hospital.

In the military we couldn't charge for the frequent rides from the gym to the hospital (usually twisting an ankle in basketball). We did find however that drawing at least one of every color blood tube we had on hand during the trip cut down on taxi rides quickly.

With separate sticks, right p_m?

It's a scam, but it's real.

I'm a professional firefighter. A few years ago, our department was approached by an outside company that was trying to implement fees for post MVA cleanup (oil spills, speedydry use, medical supplies) which would be billed to the guilty party's car insurance. We went through training for this and everything. The department got so much grief from the station officers that the whole thing quietly went away. It think that the rationale was that people would resist calling 911 for fear of being charged.

oldsaw wrote: Apparently, local municipalities are using dubious tactics to increase revenues: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/07/accident-victims-increasingly-hit-crash-taxes/ I have no issue with perpetrators footing the bill, but the victims? Question posed with the known caveat that there are multiple sides to every issue.

these fees are pretty common.

get lifestar called on you and it costs big money.

Dr. Hess wrote: With separate sticks, right p_m?

Absolutely, with the ambulance bouncing around so much it's hard to switch tubes. :)

I don't have a problem with people being billed for an ambulace ride. In NYC they are often called by a "good Samaritan" to get some piece of debris off the sidewalk. This is a waste of city money and the Ambulance crews time. Maybe if they were handed a bill on their way out they'd decline a ride now and then.

If you read the article, it says that in most cases the city bills insurance and doesn't have the right to bill the taxpayer. Then when the insurance doesn't pay, the city turns the bill over to a debt collector who first goes after the insurance and then, ILLEGALLY, goes after the taxpayer. If the taxpayer asks to see the ordinance that gives the collector the right to collect a debt from them, it's all supposed to go away.