Alternative Garage Space

Specifically disused warehouses/industrial buildings.

I've had a hankering to start in on an old building for use as personal garage space or potentially a small car-related business. Business plan notwithstanding, what can the collective tell me about acquiring and refurbishing a 50-75 year old shop building? Who would I get in touch with to find out who owns what, zoning, utilities and the like? What should I expect to pay for a 3000 square foot derelict warehouse (not outfit with car-shop stuff, just fix it up to start outfitting it).

Or am I nuts for thinking about it?

Edit: Here's a link to the property I'm eyeballing this week.

Subbing. I want to do this so badly.

Not sure on costs or the like related directly to your question... but one concern I'd raise is to have a property evaluation done prior to purchase by an environmental assessment firm out of your own pocket. You'd hate to be on the hook for past ground contamination on a long used industrial type property (think PCB's, Trichloroethyle/degreaser dumping, etc.).

Outside of that I think a lot of us have been tempted by this thought. I've thought this would be a fun way to run a "by appointment only" type business in retirement or as a hobby, and outfit it to your personal taste and needs.

Insurance on vacant buildings is a bitch. If you aren't "occupying" it - as a business/residence, it's also difficult.

Beyond that, I'd also review the zoning and verify what it can/can't be used for. Also heating/cooling 6000sq/ft can get expensive, especially with multiple/large roll up doors that may not seal well.

• eleventy billion what xflowgolf said.

I do Phase I Environmental Site Assessments for a living. You don't want to buy something without doing your due diligence.

But, I also crave what the OP wants and have been looking. Bad thing is so are a lot of other people. Roofs are expensive to replace and water intrusion will destroy a building. A lot of buildings sit because roof leaks and they don't self heal.

You will also get to deal with building inspectors, some of which fell they have badge and a gun.

I seriously toyed with that idea about three years ago. I even put an offer on a building. What the others have said is all good. What killed the deal for me was that the building failed an inspection by the insurance company (the roof structure wasn't up to code) and the seller didn't want to budge on the price.

What I have noticed around here is that prices vary wildly and without any real logic. Generally, the bigger the space, the cheaper it is per sq ft. But the cost of heating a huge building with tall ceilings can get astronomical fast. What is weird with the pricing, is that a lot of those buildings are owned by corporations and they don't seem to care whether the building is occupied or not. There are a few buildings around here that have been empty and for rent for years. They want the big bucks for them and they are completely nonnegotiable. So the buildings slowly fall into decay.

I met a guy who had a number of cars and he purchased a vacant warehouse in downtown Detroit for a pittance. The building still looks abandoned (be design, keeps the crims out) but inside he has "only about 3,000 sq. ft." devoted to living space. Then about 6,000 for his cars, and I think about 10K feets that he was thinking about partitioning off and renting out. He said his heating bill isn't bad because he's only heating 3,000 sq. ft. and he dropped that ceiling. Seems freaking brilliant if you don't have kids that want to have grass, and a safe place to play.

I've been using a warehouse for car storage/work for over a decade. But I'm just a paying member. It's a pretty large building, and there are some very nice cars, but the price per foot is very reasonable- we pay $80/mo for long term storage, $120 for short term, and I think $130 for a work bay.

but it is big, and a lot of people use it for winter storage.

I've looked into doing on a smaller scale, just for a few of us- but the cost doesn't scale very well- so- if the cost of storing 100 cars is $12k/mo, doing a 10 car set up isnt' $1200/mo, but $3000 (example- not real). When we could not find a good solution, we bailed on the idea.

Make some connections in the local car scene- you may find a lot of people want the same thing, and you will be filled with customers right away.

I rent a 3000 square foot building on a half acre with a couple other people for $250 each a month. So it maybe worth looking into something like that instead.

There are PLENTY of buildings local that would be great to try and set up as rental space.

The property I'm interested in is small enough that I'd be more interested in buying and setting up a proper shop. Nice flooring, nice workbenches, space for lathe/mill/drill press/whatever, and still enough floor space for a couple of projects and a complete car or two. The property has a small upstairs area; I'm imagining a small lounge/primitive living area up there.

I think I'd like to have a bit better idea of the neighborhood too; maybe observe the property over a couple of 24 hour periods, taking note of police presence, any suspicious behavior, industrial noise (train tracks within 1/4 mile), and the like.

DrBoost wrote: I met a guy who had a number of cars and he purchased a vacant warehouse in downtown Detroit for a pittance. The building still looks abandoned (be design, keeps the crims out) but inside he has "only about 3,000 sq. ft." devoted to living space. Then about 6,000 for his cars, and I think about 10K feets that he was thinking about partitioning off and renting out. He said his heating bill isn't bad because he's only heating 3,000 sq. ft. and he dropped that ceiling. Seems freaking brilliant if you don't have kids that want to have grass, and a safe place to play.

That's great if the zoning/building peeps don't pish in your cornflakes. In Greenville, SC they would wear you out with zoning and building requirements.

we bought an airplane hanger at the local private airport. It is about 40x50 radiant heat and large overhead doors. The extra traffic from people coming in and out of the airpot seems to help keep crime down. Might be another option.

Chris

What about a decomissioned fire station? Lots of communities are cutting back due to budget cuts. Adequate floor space, living quarters and if yur lucky enough a brass pole for stripper night. I looked at one years ago, I'm still kicking myself for not buying it.

spitfirebill wrote:

DrBoost wrote: I met a guy who had a number of cars and he purchased a vacant warehouse in downtown Detroit for a pittance. The building still looks abandoned (be design, keeps the crims out) but inside he has "only about 3,000 sq. ft." devoted to living space. Then about 6,000 for his cars, and I think about 10K feets that he was thinking about partitioning off and renting out. He said his heating bill isn't bad because he's only heating 3,000 sq. ft. and he dropped that ceiling. Seems freaking brilliant if you don't have kids that want to have grass, and a safe place to play.

That's great if the zoning/building peeps don't pish in your cornflakes. In Greenville, SC they would wear you out with zoning and building requirements.

What about if you stick an RV in there?

spitfirebill wrote:

DrBoost wrote: I met a guy who had a number of cars and he purchased a vacant warehouse in downtown Detroit for a pittance. The building still looks abandoned (be design, keeps the crims out) but inside he has "only about 3,000 sq. ft." devoted to living space. Then about 6,000 for his cars, and I think about 10K feets that he was thinking about partitioning off and renting out. He said his heating bill isn't bad because he's only heating 3,000 sq. ft. and he dropped that ceiling. Seems freaking brilliant if you don't have kids that want to have grass, and a safe place to play.

That's great if the zoning/building peeps don't pish in your cornflakes. In Greenville, SC they would wear you out with zoning and building requirements.

My sister is out in Portland and I guess living in warehouses is big out there. The word they use for them is "loft" apartments. Everyone living in the "lofts" dodges inspectors and lives in the buildings still zoned as industrial. They could be kicked out at anytime but most don't have any problems and stay for years at a time. I am sure these folks have a few tricks one would have to learn to get by inspections but it might be worth looking into.

I have looked at the pricing of some of these warehouses around Akron and they are quite a few selling for $50k or so (about the same as mid sized homes). They would be very tempting alternative if I was in the market for a house.

I've always said all I need is a bed, a kitchen, a bathroom, and a space to store and work on cars...

Swank Force One wrote: Subbing. I want to do this so badly.

ditto

fasted58 wrote: What about a decomissioned fire station? Lots of communities are cutting back due to budget cuts. Adequate floor space, living quarters and if yur lucky enough a brass pole for stripper night. I looked at one years ago, I'm still kicking myself for not buying it.

I like that idea! All you need is to get a old Cadillac ambulance to accessorize it. Ghostbusters!

Big old buildings can be costly to heat or cool if that is needed, just something to factor in.

I guess I should mention(since its partially relative) my wife and I spent the last 3-years renovating a pair of adjacent 1898 store buildings in our small downtown, which we now live above. While I don't presently have any garage space, there's a 22'x35' room on the first floor that may eventually become a garage.

The buildings are brick, while the storefront is 22'x10' of glass on each side, so heat loss/leaks are an issue in winter. However we didn't skimp on insulation for the 2nd floor, installing a total of R35. That said, heating 7000sq/ft of combined space on the 1st and 2nd floors(we have an unheated 3rd floor) is cheaper than heating our 1690sq/ft house(but we had to use space heaters for much of it due to no ductwork). It's averaged about $500/month for gas/water/sewer for the 7000sq/ft this winter.

We really like it, but it wasn't easy and certainly isn't for everyone. YMMV.

The property in question.

The local tax department can give you all of the info on the building.

My next door neighbor and I bought an old building 7.5 years ago. We each pay $600 "rent" to the corporation and pay expenses out of that. We have 5000 sq ft on the ground and 3500 or so upstairs. That works out to 7 cars each inside.

There are times when sharing the space becomes a chore, but we always find a way to get along. One thing I've found is you will acquire stuff to fill the space available. It's nearly always a mess from one end to the other, and invariably one of us will set something down in the others way. If you go into it with someone else either make sure you get along very well, or cordon off the building into your section and theirs.

I looked up warehouses in Denver once. It was a long while ago. I remember thinking there were leases that weren't too horribly bad, but not anything close to cheap. Buying them, it looked like they started at $500k and went up quick from there. Couple million was pretty typical.

I guess it depends on the city. When I lived in Memphis, geez, twenty years ago, there was a lot of abandoned property, so you could maybe score a way better deal.

JohnInKansas wrote: The property in question.

That is so cool. Color me green with envy. Wish I could find something like that here.

Look closely for vent pipes and fill pipes that would indicate underground storage tanks (USTs). Check inside for old in-ground hydraulic lifts. That looks like it could be an old repair shop.

If its located in a decent sized town, check the local library for Polk's City directories (there are other directories too) and look up the street address, starting at the newest and going back in at least 5 year intervals to as far back as they go. Also see if they have Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps. As stated the County assessor's office or GIS department may have some records.

Google search the address.

Look at the EPA's EnviroMapper web site.

There I just gave away most of my secrets.

Edit: It looks like you may be able to get an apartment in there on the second floor. Some communities are really good about revitalization of areas, and some are just pains in the arse.